Burst replicas please!

R1sky

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Hi Guys,

I’ve been watching quite a bit of history YouTube’s on bursts from plaintops to full on flame late on.

Great to really dive into the lore and see many famous bursts like skinner burst and players like Chris buck really getting into some

Also apparently a little known fact up for debate is they never used hide glue as it would take way to long to set!

Anyway .. As a Real burst is very much out of most peoples bank balance I came across a burst that basically looks the same as my Tokai 1981 ls80 and wondered you guys must have many nice bursts replicas!

So get them out!

Anything resembling or modelled on a 58-60 gibbo

Real burst:

42E1D902-E359-435D-B483-2430DDA60D50.jpeg


My ls80:

9DDD3683-221C-4418-AEF8-A7D11B3CD037.jpeg


E556BFB3-D582-4A2D-AA36-DBF10A81426A.jpeg


96DEAA12-EE7F-4717-A680-B8FFEF1A0A68.jpeg


top.jpeg


headstock.jpeg
 
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ARandall

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Who on earth have you been listening to that says hide glue takes too long to set:laugh2::laugh2::laugh2:
It needs to be heated for it to become usable, and then the glue will go off after 30 seconds or so. So it is by far the quickest glue to dry.....faster even than superglue!!
Thats about the worst bit of misinformation I've ever heard from the peanut gallery - ever :eek2: :facepalm:
 

R1sky

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From 14:47

The guy seems to know his stuff to be fair.

The thermo formaldehyde seems to be the heat cured glue he says they use.
 

ARandall

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From 14:47

The guy seems to know his stuff to be fair.

The thermo formaldehyde seems to be the heat cured glue he says they use.
Yes, radio glue was used for the tops. (Phenol and Urea Formaldehyde are both similar types) Amongst builders and real burst afficionados this is pretty common knowledge. But hide was and still is used on most of the other joints, so your premise was at best badly understood by you or worded carelessly.


Secondly for the tops its usually the reverse from what he is saying. Something so large in surface area has issues with getting the glue applied to the whole surface without it going off before the clamping was done is more the issue. 30 second of open time would barely be enough time to cover the whole surface area of top and body, and then you are 50/50 as to whether you actually have clamping effective before the glue has gelled too much. Radio glue has a much longer open time and then is cured in a glorified microwave oven.

Plus people use wood glues on tops all the time.....Titebond as well as fish glue is used commonly and both of those have the same water base and a much longer open and basic drying time. Its fine.....once you have the basic 6-12 hours in clamping its as solid as it needs to be for the guitar to be worked on. Hide glue on the other hand can be clamped for as little as 5-10 minutes - and afterwards it can be worked on under no joint stress.
Plus the wood itself is seasoned or kiln dried down to 4% moisture. The wood structure (especially open pored mahogany) with its low water content will easily draw way than enough of the water in the glue to dry it. So being a builder myself I have no idea quite what he is going on about.....maybe he's more into the guitar identifying features more than being any form of competent and experienced builder.
 

ARandall

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Additional - the reason why formaldehyde based glue was used for the top was due to it being almost 100% unlikely to be needed to be removed at any point. As solid body guitar building had come from acoustic spanish guitar building, and before that from classical instrument building a degree of repair possibility was considered - even given glues had moved beyond organic based products as the sole option.
Fish glue was used for fret gluing for this reason too.
 

R1sky

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Wow @ARandall you have some amazing knowledge there that’s great! There seems to be much debate on the web regarding what is true or not on bursts!

I find that emerald city video particularly interesting on how to id a real burst.

I wonder how closely the mij makers followed the blueprint as I remember reading I think it was Tokai who got hold of a real burst and the blueprints.

It would be good to know how mij makers attempted their burst replicas to understand how meticulous they were to copy the same methods?

Am i right in saying most mij makers were hand carving up to mid 1980 aka cnc machines?
 

ARandall

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Not sure about any MIJ makers. But it's fair to say i doubt they were going too far to copy all of the tiniest details the way these things are obsessed over now. They were budget guitars after all back then.
Gibson used copy carvers and then slack belt sanding for the tops. No 2 guitars had the same dimensions and there is massive differences in body shape and carve as well as neck profile.
They also were all over the place with the neck alignment. In many cases the maple 'centre' joint lines up with the d or g string hole on the tailpiece rather than being equidistant.
 

R1sky

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Any more burst replicas guys? surely there are plenty more out there?
 

R1sky

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My god that is beautiful!!

What is it?
 

R1sky

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Oh wow I thought the bursts with the covers was the same one!

They are beautiful!

Are they custom builds?
 

Mustard Caps

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I had a 59 Burst replica made from the guys at Vintage Relic 7 years ago. They did a limited run, and used all 50s era correct wood that was cut in the 50s. No Kiln Dried Wood. Royalite Binding, Vintage Correct Cellulose Nitrate Inlays, hot hide glue, aniline dyes, no uv protectant, or plasticizer in the nitro, the average specs from measurements taken from The Beauty of the Burst book, and the Bartlett plans. Holly Veneer on the headstock. NOS 50s BB caps. .015 in the Neck, and .022 Bridge. 50s wiring

I supplied
Tom Holmes H450/H455 pickups. I had Tom reverse the neck magnet. Highly recommended
Complete Pigtail Bridge Assembly
Gotoh SD510 locking gears with tulip buttons
Mojoaxe Guard, and Backplates
Historic Makeovers V/T Controls, R/T Ring, and Switch Tip. Truss Rod Cover.
Throbak M69 Rings

I had them use small, 6230 frets that were used until mid 59. It was a deal breaker if I coudnt get the small frets, but it was no problem.
Big fat .92-1.02 neck. The biggest neck measured in the Beauty of the Burst book.
Weighs 8.1lbs
Pleked at Joe Glasers in Nashville.

The guitar turned out so good the guys that built it told me they would give me 25% more than what I payed them for it, but I said no. I figured if they wanted it that badly, it must be a great guitar, and it is. Nicest LP Ive ever played, or heard. My buddy says it plays, and sounds better than his 1 owner 1962 Les Paul/SG. He calls it the harp guitar because it so clear, and harmonically rich. Sustains for days. It would be considered to be on the brighter side, which Im thrilled about. I have played a Strat since 71, and I thought this guitar may a bit dark, but it isnt. Much to my surprise. Even turning the Tone controls all the way down, theres no mud.

GvC30Dx.jpg


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VIuNSds.jpg

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R1sky

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I had a 59 Burst replica made from the guys at Vintage Relic 7 years ago. They did a limited run, and used all 50s era correct wood that was cut in the 50s. No Kiln Dried Wood. Royalite Binding, Vintage Correct Cellulose Nitrate Inlays, hot hide glue, aniline dyes, no uv protectant, or plasticizer in the nitro, the average specs from measurements taken from The Beauty of the Burst book, and the Bartlett plans. Holly Veneer on the headstock. NOS 50s BB caps. .015 in the Neck, and .022 Bridge. 50s wiring

I supplied
Tom Holmes H450/H455 pickups. I had Tom reverse the neck magnet. Highly recommended
Complete Pigtail Bridge Assembly
Gotoh SD510 locking gears with tulip buttons
Mojoaxe Guard, and Backplates
Historic Makeovers V/T Controls, R/T Ring, and Switch Tip. Truss Rod Cover.
Throbak M69 Rings

I had them use small, 6230 frets that were used until mid 59. It was a deal breaker if I coudnt get the small frets, but it was no problem.
Big fat .92-1.02 neck. The biggest neck measured in the Beauty of the Burst book.
Weighs 8.1lbs
Pleked at Joe Glasers in Nashville.

The guitar turned out so good the guys that built it told me they would give me 25% more than what I payed them for it, but I said no. I figured if they wanted it that badly, it must be a great guitar, and it is. Nicest LP Ive ever played, or heard. My buddy says it plays, and sounds better than his 1 owner 1962 Les Paul/SG. He calls it the harp guitar because it so clear, and harmonically rich. Sustains for days. It would be considered to be on the brighter side, which Im thrilled about. I have played a Strat since 71, and I thought this guitar may a bit dark, but it isnt. Much to my surprise. Even turning the Tone controls all the way down, theres no mud.

GvC30Dx.jpg


y9zefc2.jpg



MxLVMvD.png


BtPhBng.jpg


6y8Et64.png



VIuNSds.jpg

\

Q6QrLYE.jpg

Really loved reading that story about the ‘harp burst’

Glad it’s perfect and yours!!
 

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