Burney Les Paul - they any good?

[ArchEtech]

'80s Randy Rhoads Les Paul Custom (White)

 

[FrankiePRS]

Hellz yes.

burny

 

[Axeman16]

Yes.

 

[PoorMan]

Yes.

 

[Kuroyama]

Somebody sell me. I cant find anything that tells me where or how Burnys are made. Im GASsing for a P90 Gold Top and cannot afford a Gibson. I would rather get an open book headstock like an Edwards or Burny, but Burny is about $400 cheaper.

Why cheaper?

Should I just save my cash and get Edwards?

 

[FrankiePRS]

If you're talking about new guitars, don't bother with Burny. They'r okay, but are made in China or worse -- okay fit and finish, not great materials. New Edwards are far superior. But if you're looking at used, the 80's Burnys are great.

 

[3Pelmet3]

I recently bought a Burney Les Paul (China built), beautiful blonde maple top, brilliant neck, frets & overall finish. Pickups & amped sound is awesome but tuning stability with factory fitted tuners (Kluson type) is rubbish, bend a string & tuning is knackered. However, I swapped the factory items with a set of Grovers ( about £30) and I now have a guitar as good as any Gibson I have played ( & I have three)

 

[kherman]

Burny are made by Fernandes.
FERNANDES OFFICIAL WEB SITE

As mentioned pre-'00 are usually MIJ.
'00 onward can be MIC/MIK or MIJ depending on model number.
Currently the only MIJs are the RLC-115 and RLG-105.

My Fernandes Ravelle Deluxe is MIC.
If it's any indication and the MIC Burnys are made in the same factory,
it should be a fine instrument.
I really like my Ravelle.
I think it's nicer than the Epi MIC/MIK guitars.

 

[kherman]

Hellz yes.

burny

Frankie,

I'm envious of your Rubber JIG.

 

[nwobhm]

If you're talking about new guitars, don't bother with Burny. They'r okay, but are made in China or worse -- okay fit and finish, not great materials. New Edwards are far superior. But if you're looking at used, the 80's Burnys are great.

What is that first Burny guitar? Is it a mid 80's RLG-90? Can I have it? seriously http://toneaddict.com/bu1.html

 

[Cookie-boy]

I can tell you a story about Burny. Many, many years ago in the early seventies I used to work periodically when I was skint in a guitar shop in Londons West End. One day two guys bought a guitar in to sell. t was wrapped in a blanket. I had a feeling it was stolen, they weren't players and knew nothing about it, it was given to them as part of a debt, so they said. It was a richly appointed Les Paul, accurate in every detail to the Gibsons we stocked but much better quality. The thing was like an Artisan before the Artisan if you see what I mean. It was exquisite! At the top of the headstock it said "Bunny", or so we thought. I now know it said Burny!

Everyone in the shop thought it was a special order from Gibson for an individual player, Mr. Bunny!

Looking back now I guess it was a prototype built by Burny to tout around Europe and interest the dealers. I remember it hung on the wall for months, then one day it was gone. I probably could have had it for £80.

 

[guitar hero]

why do people hit on burny's? sure some of them can be a bit rubbish, but it depends where you get them from, i would never buy a copy les paul from the internet, theres no garuntee of what your going to get, i went to a local shop and bought a burny les paul for less than £500, i can honestly say its better than any gibson i have ever played, i love it

 

[-=[Shifty]=-]

If you're talking about new guitars, don't bother with Burny. They'r okay, but are made in China or worse -- okay fit and finish, not great materials. New Edwards are far superior. But if you're looking at used, the 80's Burnys are great.

Hmm, you are aware that Edwards are basically made in China, too?

 

[UITA]

This post is over a year and a half old mind. He may have learnt the error of his ways.

 

[-=[Shifty]=-]

This post is over a year and a half old mind. He may have learnt the error of his ways.

That makes sense.

Sorry, I didn't see how old the post was.

 

[nick1962]

Just seen ex-Genesis guitarist Steve Hackett playing live on tour in England - he played a Burny custom for the entire set- sounded good enough to me!

 

[KSPaul]

Just seen ex-Genesis guitarist Steve Hackett playing live on tour in England - he played a Burny custom for the entire set- sounded good enough to me!

Glad to see some things never change - here he is back in 1996 on his DVD, The Tokyo Tapes.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xW_7YyKawbw&feature=related]YouTube - Steve Hackett - Firth of Fifth Solo (live)[/ame]

He also plays it nearly exclusively on his 2002 DVD, Somewhere in South America.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPZ-FfBasKk]YouTube - Steve Hackett - Hairless Heart_Firth of Fifth (Live).avi[/ame]

 

[roadsong66]

Here is some historical information on Burny that I had previously saved off of the internet:

Burny

Find Out About Japanese Burny Guitars at OrangeGuitar.com

Orange Guitar is also a retailer of Burny guitars

Background of Burny

Both Burny and Fernandes are the same company. Fernandes started off first in the 70's making Fender replicas. The brand Burny was birth later by Fernandes as the division that made Gibson replicas. To date, both Fernandes and Burny are still making guitars just like their Tokai counterparts.

When it began in the 70's, there were no problems with copyright issues. This saga only surfaced a decade later in the mid 80's when Fender and Gibson felt that their empire was threatened. To avoid the copyright war, Fernandes began to make changes to certain parts of their design like truss rod cover, shape etc.

Gibson Copies

For the Burnys, the LP models were given the name “Super Grade” instead of “Les Paul.” The wording were crafted to look just the words "Les Paul". If you are not familiar with the "Super Grade" series, you may mistaken the words as "Luper Grade" due to it's attempt to model the words "Les Paul". For the Gibson copies, fortunately the most part of the design stayed the same. E.g., angle ratio between body and neck, curves on the maple top, and even the open book design on the headstock.

The Burny Super Grade Les Paul’s have been reported by many recording and gigging professionals as “the best” clone of the real classic 50’s and 60’s Les Paul’s. They say the feel is identical and especially enjoy how Burny focused on making really fat necks on their Standards. Some go as far as claiming that these copies matches neck to neck with a vintage Les Paul - which cost around US$30,000.

The Different Burny Series
Burny models that with RLG-XX. The XX were numbers that indicated the guitar series. The bigger number means the better the guitar in terms of sound and finishing qualities. Take the LP Standard copy for example, there are the RLG-45, RLG-55, RLG-70, RLG-90 etc, the best being the "Super Grade" model made in Japan. However, do note that there are models that are made in Korea. I wouldn't fault the Korean version since they are much cheaper in comparison to those made in Japan. However, if you would just compare the 2 makes in terms of quality, the Korean version does not come close to the Japanese version.
There are also the Burny FLG-XX series. These are known to be older versions of Burny - pre RLG era. An estimate timeline of their birth would be early 80s and before.
About Burny and Fernandes pickups

Amongst all the different lawsuit copies, Burny and Fernandes have the best pickups. Fernandes had their L-5000, L-5000 Vintage II, and L-5001 single coil pickups, while the Burny model Les Paul’s got the famous VH-1 pickups, that have extraordinary tone. The only reason why they have come this far in their tone is because of the timeless effort they have put in R&D.
Serialization

The older Fernandes guitars do have serial numbers on occasion, and can be found on the neck plates of the Stratocasters of the Revival series, but otherwise, Burny and Fernandes didn’t often use serial numbers. Dating a Burny or Fernandes can be loosely done by looking at the truss rod cover. The Gibson bell-shaped covers are found on 1970’s to early 1980’s models. The bell-shape cover with thin white band and ridges sticking out from the side are found on mid-1980s to early 1990’s models. The late 90's model to present will have the palace-shape and 3 screws truss rod covers.
Burny Today

As mentioned, Burny is still making these guitars in Japan. However, some of these are manufactured in Korea and China. Most believe that the Korean/China made Burny is identified through a 3 screws truss rod covers. However we have found that new Japanese made Burny comes with 3 screws truss rod covers too. So how do we tell? As far as we have researched, the difference is that the Japanese models have long tennon - this can be seen in the joint construction when you remove the neck pickup.
Between the Korean and China made pieces, many believe the Korean model is slightly above the notch. But this is unproven. The Japanese made pieces are still the models to go for.

The old “lawsuit” style models are very rare to find nowadays, and are highly collectible. Even in Japan, prices are double of what they were 2 years ago due to collector interest all over the world.
Warning
I have seen on a couple of occasions where some sellers try to modify a Korean version and claim it to be a Japanese model. So if you are buying from the internet, be very careful. Especially when the 2 make can only be differentiated from the truss rod cover it is hard to tell by just photos.
burny info
Burny by Nils-Bro Muller
Burny les Pauls 1980-87


Why Burny Les Paul´s ?.

Because in my opinion they are the best high quality LP´s you can by today, without getting ruined. Off course there are the Tokai´s and Grecos´s, but when you compare features and prices, you will find, that you will get much more for your money when buying a Burny.

This is true from a player’s point of view, but it is not always true from a collector’s point of view. Today Tokai and Grecos are the must collectable, but this may change tomorrow. I have noticed, that in the last year prices have gone up a lot. A year ago on E-bay you could easily buy a plaintop 1983-85 RLG 50 for 350-400 $, today they sell for 700-800 $ and if you want to by one from a dealer in Europe, You will have to pay 800-900 $.

But even if you pay these prices, you won’t find many guitars which give you more value for money.
Just look at what you get:

A solid good quality mahogany back (often 2 piece. But sometimes 3)
A one piece mahogany neck (often with a separate neck cap)
Two piece solid centred, sometimes very nicely figured maple top
Quality Gotoh Kluson style tuners
A nice rosewood board
Thin poly finish
Nickel hardware
Fret binding
Weight around 4.2 kilo
Very good Fernandes pickups
Correct headstock and neck angle

Before I discuss the different models, I will tell a little about myself.
I am 57 years old, and I’m Danish, living in Denmark, north of Copenhagen.
I have been playing guitar since my early teens, professionally while at university and semi prof. later on. Today I’m a semi-amateur guitar player, playing country rock, or backing a Swedish female singer, when not working as a senior advisor for the government.

I have always been collecting, selling and buying guitars, and I have made a lot of mistakes buying and selling original Fender and Gibsons. I have owned original 62 Stratocasters and an original 1959 sunburst Les Paul flametop. I sold that to a band mate in 1968 for what today is equal to 500$, because he was a better lead player than I was!! He still has that Les Paul!!

I have just sold my 1966 Gibson ES 345 and my original 1958 les Paul junior. I used to gig with these guitars, but today they are replaced with a Burny SA 100, a Burny junior and the 1980 FLG 240/150. They are simply better guitars, and for the price of the two Gibsons I can by 10 Burnys, and a new car!!
My Burny knowledge comes from old catalogues, from my own guitars (today I have 10 Burnys and I have owned ca. 25 different Burnys), from discussions with two Japanese dealers and from watching the forums etc. on the www. I must point out, that all observations are my own, and I can’t guarantee anything. The catalogues are difficult to read, and my translations may not be accurate.




Burny Les Pauls history.

Burnys are made by Japanese company Fernandes. The company started making guitars in 1969, and the first Burnys were SG´s, Firebirds and Juniors/specials, they are present in the 1973 catalogue. I have never seen any of these early ones, but from the pictures they look like very accurate copies. The first Les Paul standards are from 1975, and the ones that I have seen are not that great. The hardware (chrome) and the pickups are not very good, and the finish of these guitars is not as good as on the later ones. The top of my 1977-78 FLG 70 is made of 3 pieces of maple, it is the same with the body- 3 pieces, but the mahogany is of very high quality, so the guitar sounds good and resonant unplugged, especially after I have changed, tuners, bridge and tailpiece. These early Les Pauls all have the Les Paul gold script on the headstock, and stamped serial numbers on the back of the headstock.

Thinks changed in 1978/79, where some Fernandes/Burnys where made by Tokai.

In the 1978 catalogue you can still find a Burny FLG-60 with Les Paul script and with Burny and not Tokai features, so something happened in 1978, because there is, as far as I know, no 1979 catalogue, and the only Burny from 1979, I know of, is the Tokai made FLG-60 similar to a Tokai LS-60 “Reborn Old”. They are similar in many ways except for the name on the headstock. They even have Tokai black inked numbers on the back of the headstock. All I have seen have got 1978 (8oo xxxxx) serial numbers, though they may be 1979 Burnys. In my opinion, this is the first really good Burny Les Paul.
The older ones are just ok, on par with many MIJ Greco’s, Yamahas and Ibanez’s from the same period.
As you can see from the pictures there is no Les Paul or Super Grade script on the headstock of the Tokai/Burny FLG-60. The FLG-60 have 2 piece back, one piece neck, solid plain 2 piece top and Tokai pearl double ring tuners, and nice double white Gotoh PAF´s. The earlier RLG-70 has Gotoh made Schaller copy tuners, just like Gibsons from the same period.

The Burnys 1980-81.

In the 1980 Fernandes catalogue there was only 3 Les Pauls, the FLG 240 , the FLG 150 and the FLG 90 , no Customs no Juniors . These Les Pauls are in my opinion among the bests ever produced in Japan. The FLG 240 was a special order handbuild guitar with one piece body, one piece neck and solid flamed top, finished in nitro with Duncan 59 pickups and high quality nickel hardware. I’m told that not many 240´s were build, because the production line FLG 150 was just as good, and it had the same features.

I do think, that I have one of the few FLG240´s from 1980.

You could order them, they way you liked them, for example with a special neck or a thinner body than normal. My FLG from 1980 have the thinnest body I have ever seen on a Les Paul only 47.17 mm or 1.85 inch at the end of the body.
I maybe wrong, even original 58-60 Les Pauls had body end thickness varying from 46,6 mm to 48,8 mm, but every other Burny I have seen has a thickness from 48,3 to 48,9 mm, and that is also the normal thickness for the original Gibsons.
(source : Gibson Sunburst Les Pauls From ´58 to ´60 by Yasuhiko Iwanade, Rittot music 1996)

The third guitar from the 80-81 period is the FLG 90. It has solid one piece back but a flamed veneer top and Fernandes L8001 vintage pickups. These pickups looks very much like the later VH1´s and they do sound exactly the same, and in my opinion they sound better than the Duncan 59 PAF pickup. Even the FLG 90 was finished in nitro, but none of them had a real deep neck joint. Some of these guitars have Brazilian boards.

All three guitars have double ring Kluson style tuners, stamped with Fernandes on the back, and they got the Gibson style bell shaped truss rod cover. No script on the headstock and real pearl or pearloid inlays. The electronics are high quality with black paper in oil capacitors and braided wire, like the high end Greco’s from the same period. The switch knob is cream not amber, and the knobs are gold and not amber like the later ones. The guitars have a stamped serial number on the back of the headstock. But they have no other id.

I’m not sure if these guitars had fret binding, but it looks likes my FLG 240/150 have had it before it was refretted.

There are exactly the same guitars in the 1981 catalogue with the same features, but now they are called The Revival and the have “Super Grade model” script on the headstock, placed exactly the same place as the Les Paul script on the original Gibson. Still no Customs or Juniors.


The big change, the 1982-83 Les Pauls

In the 1982 catalogue something happened. Now there are no FLG´s.
All the Les Pauls are called RLG. There is no RLG 240, but there is a RLG 150, RLG 120, RLG 90, RLG 50, RLG 60 and RLC 60 (custom) and RLJ and RTV 80 (juniors).

The RLG 150 and 120 still have one piece bodies and solid flamed (curled) tops, but now the pickups on these are called L8002 vintage. I can’t tell the difference between the L8001 and L8002 pickups, they look the same in every way, and the resistance is the same, and they sound the same!! The RLG 90 has the L8001 pickups, same as in 1980-81. The RLG 90 still has a veneer flamed top, but now on a two piece centre seamed body, (according to the 1982 catalogue). Colour was ch and coh (cherry original sunburst) today called teaburst.

The Super Grade script is placed a little lower, the “model” is exactly the same high as the G and D tuner. (see pictures).

The RLG 50 and RLG 60 (56. model with P90 type pickups) are new models. The pickups on the RLG 50 and The Custom RLC 60 are the L8000 vintage pickups. These look like the 8001 and 8002, yellow metal base plate and 4 Phillips headed brass screws, but the wire is made of grey plastic and not braided wire like the 8001 and 8002. They also seem to be a little hotter with at resistance over 8.00. The capacitors on the RLG 50, 60 and Customs are ceramic small green ones, and not the black paper in oil ones that are in the RLG 150, 120 and 90.

Now you can hear a difference, and to my ears the difference is the same as the difference between a Gibson PAF and a latter (1967 T stamped) Gibson humbucker. Like the PAF´s the 8002 and 8001 are more open sounding, while the 8000 are more compressed.

The RLG 50 has solid plain two piece tops and two or three piece bodies. All finished in thin poly. Colour was: Original cherry sunburst, Cherry sunburst, Tobacco sunburst, Black and Gold.

The RLG 60 with soapbar P90 pickups was very much like the RLG 50´s and the pickups was called L9000 vintage. The colour on these guitars was gold. The Customs were all mahogany like the Gibsons.

Some of the most accurate Burny replicas are in my opinion the RLJ 80 double cutaway les paul junior. They have got one piece mahogany bodies and one piece necks, with a deep neck joint exactly like a 1958 Gibson Les Paul Junior. The board is really dark rosewood. They even have the same celluloid tortoise pick guard. The headstock is tapered like on all the Gibson’s up to the mid 60´s. The pickups on these are called L9100 vintage! Grey wire, braided hookup wire and black paper in oil capacitors.


1983-1986 Les Pauls

In the 83 catalogue the guitars are exactly the same as in the 82 catalogue, and the pickups are still the L8000, L8001 and L8002 vintage pickups. In this catalogue the VH1 pickup appears for the first time, not in a guitar, but as a replacement pickup. These pickups was rather expensive 12.000 Yen for one pickup!!. No wonder they didn’t put these pickups in the 50.000 Yen RLG 50, but many sellers on E-bay and in Japanese guitar shops still incorrectly call the RLG 50 pickups VH1´s.

In the 1985 catalogue the VH1´s appear for the first time in a guitar. It was in the RLG 150 and RLG 120. There are four new Les Pauls in this catalogue. There are the RLG 60 “59 model” Just like the RLG 50, multi piece back, but with a flamed veneered top.

Two other new guitars are The RSC 100 a black custom with a “Floyd rose head crasher” Tremolo and the RSC 80, cherry sunburst no vibrato. Both have a kind of ES 345 inlay on the board, and both have speed knobs. They have VH2 pickups.

The last new guitar is the 3 pickup Custom RCL 65, same as the RLC 60, but only in black and it is called the “57 model”. This guitar has VH4 pickups. The RLG 90 and RLG 60 had VH2 pickups and the RLG 50 and RLC 60 VH4 pickups. I do think that all guitars are finished in poly.
The RLG 150 and 120 from this period may have a RLG120 or RLG150 stamped in the front pickup cavity.
The difference between the RLG 150 and 120 was the quality of the top. Some 120 was made with a laminated maple top. Not the usual veneer, but a thick piece (1 centimetre) of flamed maple on top of another piece of maple, and some of the pickups in the last 120´s may have been Greco “ Screamin' ” pickups.


After 1987

I believe that the FLG 150, 120, 90 and RLC 100 and 80 all disappeared between 1986 and 1987, and the junior was in 1987 called TV 55 and JR 55 with multi piece bodies and lover grade electronics. I do think that the new truss rod cover with the wings first appeared in 1988 and at the same time all the pickups were called VH1´s, but they were different from the old VH1´s, higher output and metal coloured base plate with grey wire. They sound much like the old VH2 –VH4.

The last of the original MIJ Burnys was made in 1995/96 and in this period there was RLG 70, RLG 75 and RLG 80 more or less the same guitar with the same pickups and features often three piece backs and flamed veneered tops. Some cherry sunburst but many faded or tea burst in poly.
The neck on these guitars is always a true one piece, no separate heel cap as on almost all the older ones.

Identification

If you want to identify your Burny Les Paul standard, there are many characteristics you have to study. I will end this paper with the most obvious, the headstock, the pickups, the electronics and the serial number.

Off course there is the colour, the amount of pieces of wood, the quality of the top, the routings, the inlays and the neck joint to consider, but the features I have described in details should give You a god idea, how to date Your guitar and to decide what model it is.

But remember my observations are only guidelines. There are transition models, and it is very easy to change a truss rod cover or a pickup. I have seen a lot of guitars on e-bay with almost anything changed, and the descriptions are often very misleading. But the good thing is I have never seen a bad Burny guitar. I have seen guitars that needed adjustment, cleaning, new frets and so one, but after this they all were fine players with great workmanship, and with great sounding pickups. Some will prefer the VH4 over the VH1 pickup; it depends of music style etc. Remember that these guitars were built in the same factory as the Grecos and Orvilles. Sometimes You will find a (later) Burny with Greco or Orville features but most often they have there own characteristics.

Often the sellers of these guitars don’t know what they sell, and I hope this paper can help anybody, who wants to join the MIJ Les Paul brotherhood. It´s funny importing old guitars from Japanese guitar dealers, watching Yahoo Japan and E-bay and participate in the Tokai and Japanaxe forums on the web.
See this website for detailed pictures of Burny guitars & close-up details on the headstocks, pickups, and electronics.
Serial numbers
Up until 1982 the FLG´s have serial numbers stamped on the back of the headstock. The first cipher usually gives the manufacturing year. From 1982 until 1990-92 no numbers then numbers again, but in the pickup cavities (front or back)

80474 a 1978 FLG 70
8000437 a 1978 tokai number on a 1979 Burny FLG 60
03810 a 1980 FLG
00312 a 1980/81 FLG
44411 a 1994 RLG
51906 a 1996 RLG

 

[UITA]

I guess that post was for the lazy eh!!!

 

[roadsong66]

I guess that post was for the lazy eh!!!

I know what its like to wonder about quality, not want to get burned, and the never ending quest to find the Holy Grail of tone...........If I can help someone else with info on gear, then I have done my good deed for the day!