Bridge Location, StewMac Fret Calculator Question

[Canman]

Hi everyone,

I'm really hoping I'm not as stupid as I feel right now. I'm building a guitar for my uncle and we're using this bridge:

https://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_an...r/Golden_Age_Top-Loading_Hardtail_Bridge.html

Simple, lots of room to intonate, should work wonderfully. The scale length is 25" (replicating the Danelectro DC59/DC2, but without the MDF/masonite). I've already plugged in the numbers into the StewMac fret calculator and as many of you know, it spits out the location of the bridge for a variety of bridge styles.

Well, with the bridge we are planning on using, StewMac is saying the front-most screw on the bridge needs to be 25.735" from the fretboard side of the nut.

This can't be right, can it? That puts the saddles well beyond where 25" should be, because I don't see the saddles extending up to those screws. If the drawing shows the longest and shortest saddle settings, the longest setting is just before that front screw. (They don't indicate anything like that in the drawing, I'm just making an assumption.)

Am I missing something regarding bridge location? If a 25" scale length isn't actually 25", why are we calling it 25"?? I feel pretty stupid right now..

 

[ARandall]

I've never heard of or used the calculator. If it is working as advertised, then it should sit the saddles at about scale length with movement room either way. The rearward holes might be that distance.....are you sure you are not just reading the info wrong???

So in short, given that you will have travel both ways, why not just do it manually???
I mean, people making burst clones often need to replicate positions for the looks of the guitar, but I would doubt that this is one of those type of scenarios.

Plonk the bridge on the guitar......measure out your 25" to the saddles and pencil dot where the holes are on the wood.....done.

 

[Canman]

I suppose that's ultimately my question...is scale length as simple as 25", or is there some funny business going on. Sounds like it's as straightforward as I though, and either I misread the info or it is incorrect on the website.

Either way, I'll be doing it manually for sure! Thanks for the peace of mind!

 

[ARandall]

Maybe do a measure on your guitars of a couple of scale lengths and see where the limits of actual string vs nominal scale length lie. Both fender and gibson scale surround 25" scale, so you can see both above and below your scale. That way you can see if most saddles sit longer or closer to nominal length - so you can give more emphasis to whichever direction away from scale length you need the greater travel.

 

[Canman]

I was literally going to ask about which way to compensate (over or under scale length)...excellent idea. I'll take a closer look at the guitars around the house tomorrow.

 

[dickjonesify]

Weird. I mean, the back screws might be at 25.7-ish. Not the front, though. Hmm.

Regardless, double check and measure your 12th fret and then double it. Then put your saddle at that point, making sure it has travel both ways. Usually the lower strings go further back.

 

[Wallied]

A quick skim through the product comments section, and somebody mentioned the measurement is from the center of the Rear middle screw hole, which puts the center of the adjustable range at pretty much 25".

 

[pshupe]

I use the stew mac calculator all the time but never care about the actual bridge I am using. I just want to know the fret spacing so I can cut the fret slots in the right spot. The best thing to do is buy the bridge you want and measure from the saddles, center of adjustment, to the mounting holes for the bridge. The scale is the scale, so 25" scale would be the middle of the saddles and should be at 25". Now if the mounting screws are 1" ahead or behind because of the design of the bridge then, I guess, Stew Mac is giving you that spacing instead of making you measure it. Most times I would intonate before drilling the bridge studs anyway. This will find the hole location for you.

Cheers Peter.

 

[Freddy G]

Seems like an error on Stew Mac's part. They say the measurement is "from the fretboard edge of the nut to center of forward-most mounting screw or pivot post."

Which is clearly wrong. And it looks like it's probably exactly 1 inch off. Maybe the person who programmed the CNC that cut the volute 1" too far south on all of the Alex Lifeson signature ES-355s now works at Stew Mac

But seriously, I would call SM and tell them about that...they should rectify that.

 

[pshupe]

Nope - I do not think that can possibly be correct.

It should be about 0.25" less than 25". I bet it is to the back mounting screw. I just checked the Telecaster bridge and they have front screws and back screws but the back ones are actually the mounting screws because the front ones are around the bridge pup. Whoever typed this up probably didn't realize that the front screws on this top-loading bridge are actually the forward most mounting screws.

Regards Peter.

 

[Daniels Guitars]

i would just get the bridge and trial fit it or get a trapeze and rig a bridge up just to check, i never trust those measurements blindly

 

[LtDave32]

There's an easier way to do this.

This method was taught to me by a fella 40 years in the business, and a Gibson Authorized Repair center:


Take a straight edge to both sides of the fret board.

Draw a line continuing the fret board outer line on each side, down the lower bout.

Measure from the face of the nut (or if it's not in yet, the end of the FB) to the 12th fret, center of it. Be precise.

Take that measurement and apply it to the fret board continuance lines you drew on the lower bout.

Make a line crossing those lines. This is your center of bridge placement.

But bridges are never perpendicular to the fret board, are they?

*Edit* I needed to make corrections on my numbers:

On the cross line you just drew, but at the outer edge of the fret board line on the bass side, drop it 5/32 of an inch below the cross line. Put a mark there.

On the outer edge of the fretboard continuance line you drew on the treble side, at the cross line you just drew, Drop that line 1/16 of an inch below the cross line. Put a mark there.

Draw a line from the dropped bass side to the raised treble side. You now have two horizontal cross lines; one that's perpendicular to the fret board, one that's angled.

That angled line is where your saddles should be. So if it were an ABR, the posts would go right along that angled line, but centered for the strings/fretboard relationship..

And it will allow for enough back-and-forward travel of the saddles do dial in your intonation. The same works for all bridge pieces, even tele plate bridges (just adjust the barrels to their center on the screws, so the barrel centers on the ends of the barrels line up with that angled line).

Ever since I learned this method, I've never used the old "trapeze tail piece and washers" method of finding the bridge location.

-And it has always been right on the money.

*NOTE*

For those who want to use that method for a Gibson style stop-tail wrap-around (no ABR), move the bridge over to the bass side 1/16" laterally, for all the strings will naturally flop towards the right by 1/16".

The 1/16" move to the left compensates and will result in the strings being right over the pole pieces, and equal between the fret ends. Note this is ONLY for wrap-tail applications.

Note*

There is a both a sticky and downloadable pdf available at the top of the Luthier's Corner in the thread, "Useful Threads".

 

[LtDave32]

Ps, for all those wishing a printout they can stick on a fret board and have a fret-slotting layout, google "wfret download" without the quote marks.

It's a simple little program, you punch in your scale you wish, hit print, it prints out a ladder-like scale that you can cut out with scissors and stick to your fret board blank, then slot along the lines.

I used this for years before I bought hard templates and a .023 table saw blade.

Spray some 3M adhesive on the strips.

Lay them out on the fret board blank, starting at the nut end. Be sure your fret board blank has a good straight edge cut on its outer side. Lay out the paper template along the straight outside edge of the fret board blank.

Take a block of maple, clamp it right on the line, but leaving the line exposed. sure to square the block to the fret board blank.

Use a simple .023 saw, using your fingers to push the saw blade against the block to keep it perpendicular to the fret board.

Just move to the next one on each cut.

-use lighter fluid or other naptha to take the paper off.

 

[pinefd]

There's an easier way to do this.

This method was taught to me by a fella 40 years in the business, and a Gibson Authorized Repair center:


Take a straight edge to both sides of the fret board.

Draw a line continuing the fret board outer line on each side, down the lower bout.

Measure from the face of the nut (or if it's not in yet, the end of the FB) to the 12th fret, center of it. Be precise.

Take that measurement and apply it to the fret board continuance lines you drew on the lower bout.

Make a line crossing those lines. This is your center of bridge placement.

But bridges are never perpendicular to the fret board, are they?

On the cross line you just drew, but at the outer edge of the fret board line on the bass side, drop it 1/16th of an inch below the cross line. Put a mark there.

On the outer edge of the fretboard continuance line you drew on the treble side, at the cross line you just drew, raise that line 5/32 of an inch above the cross line. Put a mark there.

Draw a line from the dropped bass side to the raised treble side. You now have two horizontal cross lines; one that's perpendicular to the fret board, one that's angled.

That angled line is where your saddles should be. So if it were an ABR, the posts would go right along that angled line, but centered for the strings/fretboard relationship..

And it will allow for enough back-and-forward travel of the saddles do dial in your intonation. The same works for all bridge pieces, even tele plate bridges (just adjust the barrels to their center on the screws, so the barrel centers on the ends of the barrels line up with that angled line).

Ever since I learned this method, I've never used the old "trapeze tail piece and washers" method of finding the bridge location.

-And it has always been right on the money.

*NOTE*

For those who want to use that method for a Gibson style stop-tail wrap-around (no ABR), move the bridge over to the bass side 1/16" laterally, for all the strings will naturally flop towards the right by 1/16".

The 1/16" move to the left compensates and will result in the strings being right over the pole pieces, and equal between the fret ends. Note this is ONLY for wrap-tail applications.

Great stuff here, Dave! Without whipping out a guitar and tape measure to verify, I assume this gets you to the "ideal placement". I thought I'd mention if that's the case, "ideal" does not necessarily translate to "vintage accurate", for those who may care. If you notice on '50s Les Pauls, the tuneomatic bridges tend to be a fair amount less angled (i.e., more perpendicular to the strings) than their modern equivalent. And for those '50s guitars with wrap-around stop-tails, those are always much more slanted than their modern counterparts. It's one way to easily identify a vintage guitar from a modern day reissue of the "same" guitar.


Frank

 

[dickjonesify]

*NOTE*

For those who want to use that method for a Gibson style stop-tail wrap-around (no ABR), move the bridge over to the bass side 1/16" laterally, for all the strings will naturally flop towards the right by 1/16".

The 1/16" move to the left compensates and will result in the strings being right over the pole pieces, and equal between the fret ends. Note this is ONLY for wrap-tail applications.

Yes yes yes. This is important and true information. Ask me how I know.

 

[LtDave32]

Great stuff here, Dave! Without whipping out a guitar and tape measure to verify, I assume this gets you to the "ideal placement". I thought I'd mention if that's the case, "ideal" does not necessarily translate to "vintage accurate", for those who may care. If you notice on '50s Les Pauls, the tuneomatic bridges tend to be a fair amount less angled (i.e., more perpendicular to the strings) than their modern equivalent. And for those '50s guitars with wrap-around stop-tails, those are always much more slanted than their modern counterparts. It's one way to easily identify a vintage guitar from a modern day reissue of the "same" guitar.


Frank

True this, Mr Pine. Look at any real vintage LP jr or Special. You'll see right away the severe angle of the wrap-tail bridge.

It however doesn't do so well with modern strings, hence the flatter positioning today.

Also, for the wrap-tail method, there's the additional step of moving the exact drill spot location of the inserts by their total radius divided by 2, due to the large size of the post insert.

MLP member Doneone and myself worked up how to do this with several scenarios, and made it a downloadable pdf I believe, and it's in the "Useful Threads" sticky in this forum.

Much credit I would like to pass to doneone, for his great illustrations and carrying that ball further down field to include many styles, both vintage and modern of Gibson bridge placement.

-Although much of the same principles can be applied to all guitars and different scales.

 

[pinefd]

True this, Mr Pine. Look at any real vintage LP jr or Special. You'll see right away the severe angle of the wrap-tail bridge.

It however doesn't do a good with modern strings, hence the flatter positioning today.

Also, for the wrap-tail method, there's the additional step of moving the exact drill spot location of the inserts by their total radius divided by 2, due to the large size of the post insert.

MLP member Doneone and myself worked up how to do this with several scenarios, and made it a downloadable pdf I believe, and it's in the "Useful Threads" sticky in this forum.

Much credit I would like to pass to doneone, for his great illustrations and carrying that ball further down field to include many styles, both vintage and modern of Gibson bridge placement.

-Although much of the same principles can be applied to all guitars and different scales.

Dave, thanks for the reminder on the "Useful Threads" sticky. I had forgotten all about that! And I'm not sure that I ever noticed that pdf on bridge placement, but it's extremely well done. Here is a link to it in case anyone is interested, so you don't have to go searching for it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ofzwnsi9sj3n62h/BridgePlacement.pdf


Frank