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jpage1974

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Yeah I like this; subjectively they might have a difference, but to say with certainty that objectively there IS a difference is a stretch.
He's actually saying that objectively there IS a difference...but some can't perceive it. It is not subjective...
 

jaqueh

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He's actually saying that objectively there IS a difference...but some can't perceive it. It is not subjective...
He is saying that some people think they can hear a difference; by definition that is subjective. next
 

jpage1974

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He is saying that some people think they can hear a difference; by definition that is subjective. next
Next is... some people have better hearing acuity. That is scientific fact. Just like some people have the gifts of "relative pitch", "perfect pitch", "rhythm", etc. Some people have permanently lost their sense of taste or smell after having COVID. Maybe that's what happened to you with common sense. You lost that ability...
 

GuitarTalk

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I don’t need your permission for anything… congratulations for spelling “apex” correctly. I will let your third grade teacher know that you figured it out! Lol!

You and @Cozmik Cowboy need to get into a ring and fight it out. Better entertainment than Jake Paul. Based on your mind-blowing input on this thread, it seems you two are polar opposites on this gargantuan issue, debated by musicians and scientists all over the world.

1668636128634.gif
 

jpage1974

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You and @Cozmik Cowboy need to get into a ring and fight it out. Better entertainment than Jake Paul. Based on your mind-blowing input on this thread, it seems you two are polar opposites on this gargantuan issue, debated by musicians and scientists all over the world.

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That is a brilliant idea! Only, when he loses he would still claim that he won... so it is pointless! lol
 

Cozmik Cowboy

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This made me laugh! I don't know if you are trying to be sarcastic but me and the guys at the shop loved this! haha!
Smart-ass, yes (one of my many endearing qualities); sarcastic, not all - just an inveterate wise-acre's way of making a 100% valid point.
 

jpage1974

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Smart-ass, yes (one of my many endearing qualities); sarcastic, not all - just an inveterate wise-acre's way of making a 100% valid point.
You might as well of said “ I iz dum. I candt till da diffence bitween sownds uv da instroomints”. That’s okay though…. You are probably good at other things. Is your slogan “if I didn’t see it or hear it, IT DIDN’T HAPPEN!” ?
 

55special

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To clarify, I was in fact saying that there is an objective difference and some may not be able to hear it. Hearing is a sense. My eyesight is so-so. Does that mean no one can see better than me from a distance? I think 100% of people would agree that's ridiculous. This applies to all senses. It varies from person to person. We just don't quantify and measure hearing the same way we do with vision.

If you give me a $50 bottle of wine or a $500 bottle of wine, and I might not be able to tell the difference. Does that mean there isn't a difference because I can't taste it? Absolutely not. It just means that difference isn't of much use to me.
 

jaqueh

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To clarify, I was in fact saying that there is an objective difference and some may not be able to hear it. Hearing is a sense. My eyesight is so-so. Does that mean no one can see better than me from a distance? I think 100% of people would agree that's ridiculous. This applies to all senses. It varies from person to person. We just don't quantify and measure hearing the same way we do with vision.

If you give me a $50 bottle of wine or a $500 bottle of wine, and I might not be able to tell the difference. Does that mean there isn't a difference because I can't taste it? Absolutely not. It just means that difference isn't of much use to me.
If you and someone else who can’t hear a difference took the same hearing test administered by a professional to prove that you do indeed have better hearing then it does become closer to objective. Otherwise still subjective as you are the one who believes you have the gifted hearing that can hear a difference between wood underneath strings on an electric instrument.

The wine example makes no sense, if you can’t taste that two wines are different, not necessarily one is better, then you have some issues.
 

55special

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If you and someone else who can’t hear a difference took the same hearing test administered by a professional to prove that you do indeed have better hearing then it does become closer to objective. Otherwise still subjective as you are the one who believes you have the gifted hearing that can hear a difference between wood underneath strings on an electric instrument.

The wine example makes no sense, if you can’t taste that two wines are different, not necessarily one is better, then you have some issues.
There is no hearing test available that accounts for these things. Like being able to hear more detailed harmonics. They can only test to see if you have a deficit at particular frequencies.

I'm not a wine guy... but what I was implying was that someone may be capable of tasting something like age and complexity, when someone else can't. They will obviously taste different.

I don't know that I would call it gifted hearing or tasting. It's just something that is or isn't there. The way other people describe the sound of BRW is the same way I hear it. Are we conspiring to agree on what it sounds like? That would be really bizarre. If it didn't sound different, it would make no difference to me. I just call it like I hear it.

You are actually trying to argue that everyone has the same quality of hearing. That is biologically impossible. Some people hear, taste, see, smell, more nuances than others.
 

mudface

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The audience doesn’t give a shit in a difference of fretboard wood nor do they care that the guitarist can. All the wasted time and money pleasing your own ears is lost on a crowd who paid money to hear some music..... the tiny nuances of a species of wood means nothing if you don’t get the solo right on a ZZtop song..... It’s far more important to perform with good taste and style then what your stupid fretboard is.

Just my opinion yours may vary
 

jaqueh

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There is no hearing test available that accounts for these things. Like being able to hear more detailed harmonics. They can only test to see if you have a deficit at particular frequencies.

I'm not a wine guy... but what I was implying was that someone may be capable of tasting something like age and complexity, when someone else can't. They will obviously taste different.

I don't know that I would call it gifted hearing or tasting. It's just something that is or isn't there. The way other people describe the sound of BRW is the same way I hear it. Are we conspiring to agree on what it sounds like? That would be really bizarre. If it didn't sound different, it would make no difference to me. I just call it like I hear it.

You are actually trying to argue that everyone has the same quality of hearing. That is biologically impossible. Some people hear, taste, see, smell, more nuances than others.
No I’m arguing that what you stated is subjective unless you can quantify in objective terms how your hearing is superior to someone else who can’t hear differences between wood on a guitar.

Also until you’ve done a blind sound test on the exact same guitar electronics and setup but with two different fretboard materials and can pick out A and B with statistical significance, this forever rooted firmly in the subjective camp.
 

DBDM

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I am attempting to sit here and ponder HOW a Braz fretboard could make a difference in tone? I guess the vibration of the strings through the metal frets changes tone based on the difference in the wood under the fret? Certainly not impossible but the density and general composition of the wood in quesiton (Braz vs EIR) would be seemingly quite trivial when compared to Maple vs Mahogany necks and bodies and even maple tops. Even with feel? I must be seriously doing it wrong if yall are feeling the difference in Braz on the fretboard vs EIR, I attempted to test it myself tonight and I really do not think I could tell. Even with Ebony I notice little difference in the feel as I play but I am a little biased--these being MY guitars and all. Guess I need to somehow test them blind but still pretty sure I would know which one I am holding (if, for example, I had my wife hand me each one blindfolded).
If those degrees of difference in the wood of the fretboard changes tone. then certain other features such as plastics and their respective densities sould likely change tone as well? Further the tone of the species of maple (Eastern Sugar Maple vs Western Bigleaf Maple) which are measuralby different (Eastern can be twice as hard as Western) should really be a difference maker! Maybe we should start really talking about maple species?
 

55special

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I'm too old to get into petty, insult throwing, discussions. I think these are fun topics to discuss when done respectfully.

In general, I think some people on these boards care way too much about what other people like or appreciate. If you hear/see/feel no difference, no one is forcing you to buy it! I'm not trying to crowd fund this forum to buy me a BRW equipped guitar. I've hardly wasted money anything. I didn't spend much on those guitars and they've tripled in value. I wouldn't exactly call that a waste.

The audience also doesn't care about 99% of the gear you use. So what? I play what inspires me to play and be most productive. And what sounds best - to me. I'm not trying to play what sounds "good enough" for the audience. Of course playing trumps all. No one is suggesting a BRW board is going to make a beginner sound like Jimmy Page.

A Klon, for instance, doesn't sound good enough for me to spend $6k more than a Centura. But there is a difference. And if someone is happy to spend that dough, make yourself happy!

There is no hearing test that can account for these kinds of sensitivities. The fact that people who like them are hearing the same characteristics should tell you something.
 

jaqueh

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There is no hearing test that can account for these kinds of sensitivities. The fact that people who like them are hearing the same characteristics should tell you something.
Curious what are these characteristics? Taking some guitar buzzwords is it the following: clear, resonant, helps sustain, and musical?
 

55special

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Curious what are these characteristics? Taking some guitar buzzwords is it the following: clear, resonant, helps sustain, and musical?
I have a maple Gibson acoustic that sounds much brighter than a rosewood acoustic. Are you suggesting that's in my imagination or subjective? Or that brighter is a buzzword?

I've already described the characteristics I hear in BRW. It really doesn't bother me in the slightest if you don't hear them. But it seems to bother you that I do.
 

DBDM

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I have a maple Gibson acoustic that sounds much brighter than a rosewood acoustic. Are you suggesting that's in my imagination or subjective? Or that brighter is a buzzword?

I've already described the characteristics I hear in BRW. It really doesn't bother me in the slightest if you don't hear them. But it seems to bother you that I do.
Certainly NOT disagreeing but that is back and sides of the body of an acoustic. Not the fretboard material.
 

jaqueh

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I have a maple Gibson acoustic that sounds much brighter than a rosewood acoustic. Are you suggesting that's in my imagination or subjective? Or that brighter is a buzzword?

I've already described the characteristics I hear in BRW. It really doesn't bother me in the slightest if you don't hear them. But it seems to bother you that I do.
I totally agree that wood makes a massive difference on an acoustic instrument, which is not what this thread is about.

Ah I think I missed that part of the message; I have it now; pretty close to what I surmised: "There's no twang on that guitar. It's just beefy, round, and clear. " Those are subjective attributes on a guitar.

What does beefy mean? It has more low end?
What does round mean? It has more midrange?
What does clear mean? It has more high end?

Doesn't that just mean it has more amplitude in every part of the audible hearing range then?

I don't know about you, but this sounds very wishy washy to me...
 

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