Boutiques dont impress

bulletproof

aka tarddoggy
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Why not back down the controls on the guitar and compensate by turning up the controls (and gain) on the amp?
This is the deal right here,man. I tend to run The amp very loud and control everything with the guitars vol and tone knobs.There are just so many variations though.....what works for me may not work for you. Lot of trial and error,however,ain’t that half the fun?:dude:
 

Niilopi

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Yeah same case here i use the guitar pots to find the sounds. And i tune the amp for my neck pickup. But it still didnt work with the first pickups. Could be the nature of my guitar also that doesnt work with most pickups. Right now im getting the bridge changed to a solid bell brass one and having the frets done at the same time cause they were too worn out. Maybe that will affect the guitar output acoustically
 

Deviljho

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Boutique pickups can really be hit or miss. For me, I really enjoy Dimarzio, SD, Tonerider, and Gibson's stock humbuckers. I also think the Fender Dragster pickup is very good and recommend that pup for individuals looking for a clean, PAF sounding neck pickup. I'd choose from those brands anyway over the more boutique offerings.

However, the amount of variety and care that goes into boutique offerings is always appealing. After all, if you're looking for something very specific, and you KNOW what sound you want, you most likely won't find it from Gibson.

We're in a golden age for guitar. We're very fortunate to have so many talented winders working to give us the sounds that we desire...or think we want, lol.
 

J-Dizzle

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We don't even know what music the OP likes or what kind of tone he wants from his guitar.

For all we know he could be chasing something you'd get from a 70s DiMarzio super D.

OP - elaborate what you want?
 

ntotoro

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nope i sold them. The problem might be for me that i dont know if its the true PAF sound im even looking for.
I know I'm several days late to this, but this is often a problem people find when they go pickup diving. Even more so, they get a misconception of what different kinds of PAF's sound and feel like and what they do. They mistakenly believe it's some super warm, liquidy, chunky tone. Now... they can do that, based on the amp, but that's not necessarily what you're gonna' get without some other signal changes.

The amp plays more a part in your gain... or at least should.

Nick
 

Marco78

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In my opionion boutique means that you can choose the specs and you can speak to builder on your needs. For example K&T or OTPG are not boutique because you can only buy this or that pickups.

For example in Europe I pay the same price for Seymour Duncan Antiquity or OX4 set. So boutique don't means always "more cash".
 

Classicplayer

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I'm sure “boutique” pickups offer a myriad of different tone options; depending on what you may ask the winder to fashion from your tone request. Does that mean that it will sound perfect for the particular guitar you want it for? Maybe yes, then again, maybe not. It's one reason, I've now refrained from going the boutique route and too, after trying two pairs of Duncan’s (perhaps the first of the “boutique” winders?).

I was not pleased long term with the ‘59 pair....used them 12 years, so it was a fair test. Their 2nd. pair, Seth Lovers, were much to my liking and will remain. This leads me to say that any of us most likely will be well-served by going with lower wind, less powerful and toneful magnets. Boutique winders can offer many of their winds along these lines. The more experienced of us can express in words exactly what they want to hear in a pickup to their choice of winder.

I’ve decided to stay with the stock Burstbuckers in my new Traditional and keep the Seth’s in my 2000 Classic because now I've managed to learn so much on MLP on how to tweak, both my guitar controls as well as how to set my amps and if need be, tweak the pickups that I already use and like.

I go back to those primitive days when we bought a guitar and amp and learned to get the tone because choices were few and as long as the guitar looked good, was easy to play and the amp was a Fender, Gibson, or Ampeg we were in 7th. heaven. Thank goodness that the guitar world has advanced light years since, but tone still remains (as then) subjective.


Classicplayer
 

Classicplayer

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One advantage of having a “boutique” experienced winder fashion a pickup of your choice is their knowledge derived for analyzing pickups of yore to see the components and how they were assembled years back when those collectible Les Pauls were made.

My own philosophy of pickups is that the more powerful the pickup, the less control I seem to have in getting my personal tone. I'm “allowing” the pickup to take more control of my tone. It should be the other way 'round.....this is even more evident when playing through a modern high gain amp. I think I'd have a better chance with a pickup with a lot less output when using that style of amp. Now that I have the pickups with much lower power in my two Lester’s, I can get my amp gain higher, should I require that, and still have some control of my tone. I have, I feel, better touch control.

My second point is that, at least from some of what I read and hear, guitar music is going quieter these days. I look around my locale and a website devoted to videos recorded live at local establishments, shows many now going acoustic guitars into a P.A. either portable or owned by the hall, pub, or bar. Two that strike me as anything but high-gain music are a Doors tribute band, and a Zeppelin one.....not exactly exceedingly loud, but very convincing likenesses of the originals.



Classicplayer
 

Antigua

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One advantage of having a “boutique” experienced winder fashion a pickup of your choice is their knowledge derived for analyzing pickups of yore to see the components and how they were assembled years back when those collectible Les Pauls were made.
Big name brand Seymour Duncan actually had a remarkable amount of experience with taking apart old pickups. DiMarzio went in the direction of re-inventing the wheel, but Seymour Duncan always had a focus on repairing and recreating vintage, stock pickups, which of course were not yet vintage back when he started out. He had even documented turn counts and DC resistances of various Fender pickups, which is presented here http://www.guitarhq.com/pickups.html It's great that he documented and ultimately shared that info, as hard data is difficult to come by in the aftermarket pickup world.
 

cooljuk

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Big name brand Seymour Duncan actually had a remarkable amount of experience with taking apart old pickups. DiMarzio went in the direction of re-inventing the wheel, but Seymour Duncan always had a focus on repairing and recreating vintage, stock pickups, which of course were not yet vintage back when he started out. He had even documented turn counts and DC resistances of various Fender pickups, which is presented here http://www.guitarhq.com/pickups.html It's great that he documented and ultimately shared that info, as hard data is difficult to come by in the aftermarket pickup world.

FYI - There is a bunch of misinformation on that site. Perhaps intentional to throw people off, perhaps in error. I believe even Seymour has sad the same of it, as have others in the know, and the misinformation isn't limited to the Fender section.

Also, though Mr. Duncan certainly spent plenty of time repairing old pickups, the ones his company produces today are nearly as untrue to the originals as Gibson's present take. At some point, a company so large has to decide where they are going to cut corners to quickly mass produce products and meet a certain price point while covering huge overhead.
 

Antigua

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FYI - There is a bunch of misinformation on that site. Perhaps intentional to throw people off, perhaps in error. I believe even Seymour has sad the same of it, as have others in the know, and the misinformation isn't limited to the Fender section.

Also, though Mr. Duncan certainly spent plenty of time repairing old pickups, the ones his company produces today are nearly as untrue to the originals as Gibson's present take. At some point, a company so large has to decide where they are going to cut corners to quickly mass produce products and meet a certain price point while covering huge overhead.
Can you give an example of an error on that web page, so that we will know what sort of errors you're referring to?
 

cooljuk

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Can you give an example of an error on that web page, so that we will know what sort of errors you're referring to?
Absolutely. Perhaps most famous one, and least disputable as anyone can look at thousands of photos of aged Gibson covers and see otherwise, is the following quote, claiming that vintage Gibson covers are made of brass:

http://www.guitarhq.com/paf.html
"Early P.A.F. pickups as used on the 1956 lapsteels and 1957 Les Paul Standard had brushed stainless steel pickup covers (brushed to make them look nickel plated). This quickly changed to brass covers with a nickel plating. If the cover was gold, the brass was first nickel plated and then gold plated."
 

RAG7890

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.................IMHO & based on what I know, don't know & have seen, Guitarhq is a great site full of good information but don't think all the information is 100% correct. As James said there are some errors on that site.

FWIW, there are also arguments among "experts" as to what the real facts are.

:cheers2:
 

Antigua

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I don't know much about the site, but this goes to show the importance of citations, because we don't know where any of the given info originates from, though the website specifically credits Seymour Duncan as the source of the Fender pickup specs.

Here's an all around better Seymour Duncan knowledge resource https://www.seymourduncan.com/seymours-knowledge-base
 

cooljuk

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Here's an all around better Seymour Duncan knowledge resource https://www.seymourduncan.com/seymours-knowledge-base
https://www.seymourduncan.com/seymours-knowledge-base

I like Mr. Duncan. I admire him and what he's done in many ways. He's nothing less than inspiring to me. What I'm about to say isn't at all a criticism of him, personally. He doesn't build websites or edit copy, I'm sure.

So, don't take this the wrong way but his rendition of Peter Green's Burst neck pickup story, posted at that link, is speculative, at best.

It leaves out entirely that the pickup was rewound. I'm pretty sure Peter green himself didn't do it. Maybe the magnet was flipped, maybe it was not. Whether the phasing was reversed electrically or magnetically makes little difference. What's significant is that the coils were rewound. Likely hand-wound, and probably with different wire, turn counts, coil patterns, internal geometry, etc. making them significantly different coils from the factory PAF in the bridge. Many people flip a magnet or electrically reverse phase and wonder why they don't get the "Greeny" sound out of their pickup set. Information that is incomplete is still inaccurate, if by omission of extremely relevant factors.

Again, perhaps intentional to mislead competition. Or, perhaps simplified to appeal to uneducated readers. Perhaps a quick Q&A with the boss between meetings by the web designer that didn't get the attention it deserves and came out less than desirably. In any case, the answer people are seeking, when asking about Greeny, is only partly there, if at all, and extremely significant info is missing entirely from the answer.
 

cooljuk

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Doesn't matter which way it was wound because the coil could be hooked up either way to compensate (of course you know this, Rayne, but others may not).

The point is that the pickup was modified beyond a simple magnet flip in a way that makes the coils significantly different from the stock bridge PAF.

Just flipping the magnet (or electrically reversing the phase, basically the same thing) on a stock pickup set won't get someone there.
 

ARandall

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If the 1 rewound coil was hooked up backwards, then the pickup would sound weak and thin by itself.....but its only the middle switch posi that is OOP, so inside the pickup is all connected in phase.
From what I've read, the Greeny LP has a different hookup wire for the neck pickup.....so its possible that a lot of the pickup might have been altered. Certainly a video with Phil Harris mentions that an amp guy was the one who did the rewind. At the time these guitars weren't the legend they were to become.......of course that very guitar's future would go on to create the legend as much as any other.........so there was no precedent on re-using original parts. If there were other parts about that made it easier or cheaper to do the repair, then maybe this was done. A young, possibly poor, muso may well have taken every opportunity to lessen the cost. It must have stretched the budget to the limit to buy such a guitar in the first place.
 

bulletproof

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https://www.seymourduncan.com/seymours-knowledge-base

I like Mr. Duncan. I admire him and what he's done in many ways. He's nothing less than inspiring to me. What I'm about to say isn't at all a criticism of him, personally. He doesn't build websites or edit copy, I'm sure.

So, don't take this the wrong way but his rendition of Peter Green's Burst neck pickup story, posted at that link, is speculative, at best.

It leaves out entirely that the pickup was rewound. I'm pretty sure Peter green himself didn't do it. Maybe the magnet was flipped, maybe it was not. Whether the phasing was reversed electrically or magnetically makes little difference. What's significant is that the coils were rewound. Likely hand-wound, and probably with different wire, turn counts, coil patterns, internal geometry, etc. making them significantly different coils from the factory PAF in the bridge. Many people flip a magnet or electrically reverse phase and wonder why they don't get the "Greeny" sound out of their pickup set. Information that is incomplete is still inaccurate, if by omission of extremely relevant factors.

Again, perhaps intentional to mislead competition. Or, perhaps simplified to appeal to uneducated readers. Perhaps a quick Q&A with the boss between meetings by the web designer that didn't get the attention it deserves and came out less than desirably. In any case, the answer people are seeking, when asking about Greeny, is only partly there, if at all, and extremely significant info is missing entirely from the answer.
See,I didn’t know that,James. Aways back,I had a certain winder tell me that it was a simple recipe he followed to wind his PGs. Don’t sound like a “ simple “ recipe to me.
 

CheopisIV

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See,I didn’t know that,James. Aways back,I had a certain winder tell me that it was a simple recipe he followed to wind his PGs. Don’t sound like a “ simple “ recipe to me.
It's true, there's nothing simple about proper Peter Green tone...but when you finally find something that actually works, it then becomes a simple recipe ;)

Took me the better part of ~10 years searching/experimenting with other pickups and over a year winding to find my own recipe! For me, it's a magnet flip and specific coil setup that gets there. Generally, putting pickups out of phase gives a huge volume drop and high end boost so they sound thin and brittle.
 


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