Body joint cut. Your thoughts sought.

Brek

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ok, so i tried a month ago. got somewhere close. sent it to joiner firm and they did a slightly angled joint that bowed. so got new router today, and made a simple jig, following are pics of result. Should i do another pass as still slight evedence of bow. i don't want to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
2531F6C3-BFFC-4E38-A617-E1A1D3D66533.jpeg
58FBEE65-78C7-4D58-B151-69939FBF9B4C.jpeg
8FB2F753-CC5C-4238-B51D-815B0DDDFE0E.jpeg
E803139D-420B-4733-A9B8-0C6015554D15.jpeg


this is it clamped up:

8A2A111C-E5F2-4F4C-9776-2F626DA78B77.jpeg
 

dcomiskey

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If it's done right, there should be zero bow and zero gaps. I hope they refunded your money! Since it's present in the body outline, I don't think you have any other choice but to fix it before gluing up.
 

LtDave32

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I think you'd do better with a shooting board to true up that joint.

Taking off just a few thousandths on each piece just to clean up the joint , as it's obvious you don't have very much to work with where width is concerned.

You can do better than that on your table saw yourself.
 

jkes01

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I would try clamping the pieces together and using a #5 plane to take a little off the middle.
 
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Brek

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This is after I did it myself, I actually reversed one of the sides and it’s a better match than the jointer cut I asked them to do.

I guess it was a rhetorical question, I know it needs another pass, I stopped as was late in day and didn’t want to risk a mistake. Will reset jig tomorrow and measure again, needs a midges off as we say.

They did three jobs for me the others were thickness sanding two bodies , we are talking £10 not going to ask for it back. But lesson learnt, do it myself, and learn the skills to do so, if they involve new methods. I am pretty pleased with how cut went, I should have taken a before shot,
 

Brek

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I think you'd do better with a shooting board to true up that joint.

Taking off just a few thousandths on each piece just to clean up the joint , as it's obvious you don't have very much to work with where width is concerned.

You can do better than that on your table saw yourself.
I have a router table arriving tomorrow (hopefully), and yeah, the width is starting to freak me out a bit. It needs very little trimming now, but I’m at point of no more leeway for error, the joinery company took of more than I would have deemed necessary. But this is all new to me, so there will be the odd hiccup along the way. I did make a basic error, I had a longer length than needed, but didn’t look at the ends with a critical eye. I could have cut further down the plank and avoided that knot so near the horn.
 

Brek

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I would try clamping the prices together and using a #5 plane to take a little off the middle.
I’m not that skilled, well I don’t feel I am at mo, I don’t have any planes save a cheap electric one, which is great for trimming doors, again, feel my skill set not upto trying that either yet. I used those metal strips to keep router straight and worked very well for a very jerryrigged device.
 

Brek

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Shiny new router, 2100w, 1/2 collet, checked bit with a 90 degree steel gauge. and 90 degrees bang on. Was after the Bosch gmf 1600, but not available anywhere in U.K. for love or money. So didn’t want to spend big bucks on a router that wasn’t that one, so bought this for £100, surprisingly good, base is a bit flimsy so will replace that, intended to install on the router table when it arrives.
B4B91ABF-AB3B-4A42-906E-519DEB5658D6.jpeg
 

CB91710

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I would agree with Dave on using a plane and a shooting board.
Much less material removal than the router and much less likely to make a nasty mistake.

The router cut will be no more straight than the jig that is clamped to the body, and being clamped only at the ends can easily bow a small amount in the middle.
You've only got the thickness of a treble string to take off... and any bow in that jig will repeat the problem.
 

Brek

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Ok, will read up on that. I was wondering if it had moved slightly, did a few test passes with blade turned away from wood, and seemed pretty solid, there was a big bow to start with, so at this point not sure if it’s what’s left of original bow, or I introduced it, no matter I guess.

Had a quick look at a few vids, interesting skill. I don’t have any hand planes, I can see they are a very handy tool to have, the shavings one guy was getting were insane with this huge plane like looked like it was 2 foot long, like incredibly thin shavings, I am not sure I can master that though? I do remember using my fathers plane when in my teens and I really struggled to get blade true.

I will try a test piece when router table arrives, and see what the realistic minimum it can accurately remove is. From the work I did today though I can see me sending table back and making my own multipurpose bench.
 
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LtDave32

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I would agree with Dave on using a plane and a shooting board.
Much less material removal than the router and much less likely to make a nasty mistake.

The router cut will be no more straight than the jig that is clamped to the body, and being clamped only at the ends can easily bow a small amount in the middle.
You've only got the thickness of a treble string to take off... and any bow in that jig will repeat the problem.
Routers can bobble, as they are top-heavy. Especially so when using them as shown in that router pic.

One bobble from the hand while pushing it, and your dreams of a seemingly seamless seam (haha) are over. This is the very reason for a router table.

So you've got a router table coming, and I'm sure You can true up the edges on that with a bearing bit and something dead-nuts straight for that bearing to ride on. Just don't take off too much. Tiny passes removing hair thicknesses is key here. But router tables aren't really designed to square things up. They are designed to bit-cut from patterns.

I recommended shooting board, but the router with table will serve you well here if caution is taken to have a very straight edge serve as the pattern, and the work barely over the straight edge. Any bobble or wobble in your pass at the bit is going to show that bobble or wobble in the work.

Take extreme caution as to your direction of feed and what side of the bit you are feeding to. Use a test piece first.
 

LtDave32

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Ok, will read up on that. I was wondering if it had moved slightly, did a few test passes with blade turned away from wood, and seemed pretty solid, there was a big bow to start with, so at this point not sure if it’s what’s left of original bow, or I introduced it, no matter I guess, as will do the shooting board method when table arrives.
The deal with a shooting board and a table saw is that the board is absolutely straight and square, like store-bought piece of MDF. The edge of the MDF rides on the fence, and the workpiece is double-taped (or any other method) to the saw side of the board, with just a minimal piece poking out to be trimmed. The idea of a shooting board is that the rough or out-of-square edge on the other side at the fence is going to transfer that irregularity to the saw side, because that irregularity rides on the fence.

So the shooting board offers a straight, square alternative, while you set your gluing edge just proud of the saw side with double-stick tape or the old masking tape with super glue that works so well.
 

LtDave32

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Brek, you being rather new to this; do all these procedures first on scrap woods and cheap lumbers.

We ALL make misteaks. Every dang day. It is much easier to deal with a mistake if it didn't involve expensive hardwoods.

..ask me how I know..

So find out what works and what doesn't on cheap-ass woods. You will be very relieved if the (if any) error was encountered and corrected on crap lumber.
 

Brek

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Copy that. Yeah, very new to it, I mean I have worked with wood on some level since school and renovating houses. Fitted laminate and solid wood worktops, into corners using jigs for example.

But a Les Paul, man, big boys stuff. Because of my brain (dis)function, I have a tendency to go straight ahead, there is no stop sign. Since diagnosis I am better at stopping, most of the time. But I can still revert to type when I have those moments when I am not fully aware that I need to manage my behaviour. You guys have been a great help. It’s Llike having someone there to remind me every now and again.
 

cmjohnson

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It's amazing to me that you could send the pieces off to a shop to get professionally joined and they didn't come back perfectly joined.

I have a cheap 6" Delta benchtop jointer, a real 150 dollar tool, and it delivers dead perfect body joinery. I did take the time to tune it very carefully, admittedly, but there's no excuse for a pro shop to deliver less than pro grade results. I do hope you got your money back from them because they certainly didn't earn it.
 

LtDave32

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Copy that. Yeah, very new to it, I mean I have worked with wood on some level since school and renovating houses. Fitted laminate and solid wood worktops, into corners using jigs for example.

But a Les Paul, man, big boys stuff. Because of my brain (dis)function, I have a tendency to go straight ahead, there is no stop sign. Since diagnosis I am better at stopping, most of the time. But I can still revert to type when I have those moments when I am not fully aware that I need to manage my behaviour. You guys have been a great help. It’s Llike having someone there to remind me every now and again.
You are visible in our Luthier's Corner community. Posting your work and being honest about your skill levels is what guides both you and us in increasing and broadening your skill levels.

This is good, and this is how you learn.

Humility is key. Retain that, and the world is yours. No one wants to help an attitude-ey know it all.

Hell, I'm proud to announce what I learn and who I learn it from. I learn every day.

Regarding your "brain"..

Learn patience. This is something I had to re-discover in myself. Glue has to dry. Paint has to cure. Procedures well-thought out and practiced first transfer into good results.

When you can't figure something, Force yourself to take a day.

Middle of the night sometime, it will come to you.

-Then you're out in the shop at 3AM, pissing off the neighbors. :laugh2:
 

LtDave32

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It's amazing to me that you could send the pieces off to a shop to get professionally joined and they didn't come back perfectly joined
It says to me that somebody at the shop didn't check their work.

inexcusable.
 

cmjohnson

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Another vote for PATIENCE. I have found that skill level goes hand in hand with patience. It's almost like learning to be patient is a prerequisite for jumping your skill level up. Because I never improved my skills without learning more patience FIRST.

My finishes were pretty suspect, years ago. I couldn't wait to have the guitar done so I could play it. Now...if it takes two weeks for a finish to be cured and ready for final sand and polish, don't be surprised if I wait a month or more just because I've become so patient that it's almost indistinguishable from being lazy. I'm just not in a rush anymore. And it's helped. A LOT. Never allow anyone to rush you. Least of all, YOU.

As a result, I'm now MUCH happier with how my finishes come out. I'd dare say that my improvements have been noted and favorably commented on by people who've seen my progress. I still think there's room for improvement, of course.
 

Southwest

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Learn patience.
This a million times. God knows I am not qualified to comment on this thread, but I am currently spending way too much time fixing previous screw-ups.

Kudos to you @Brek and I am following this build closely. Good luck and I hope it all works out perfectly.
 


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