Bigsby issues

[Tonemeister]

Yup, another one of these threads.

I have an ES335 with a B7 on it. From day one it has not returned to pitch for me. I have refined the Gibson stock nut. Swapped out to a roller bridge. Went to a TUSQ XL nut. Nothing has really worked to provide stability and return to pitch in the Bigsby system. The only thing that did work was when I removed the tension bar. The B7 was smooth as could be and I could wail on the bar (as a test and not in practical application)and it would stay in tune. This is how I have eliminated the nut and bridge saddles from the equation. The only problem was I was getting nasty harmonic overtones from the freely vibrating string length behind the bridge. Unfortunately it made this solution nonviable. I am convinced it is something in the mechanical makeup of the B7 which is causing me grief. I removed the tension bar , once again, to see if I could smooth out the points of friction. I'm not really sure how to do this though. Will sandpaper do it or do I need tougher stuff? Also is there something in the cup and spring design that could be getting stuck and not allowing the recoil of the spring? I'm going nuts. I will not accept the answer "Bigsbys have these issues and you just gotta deal with it." I've seen many a player beat the hell out of them and stay in tune so I know it's possible. I also am proficient at cutting nut slots and keeping them smooth and lubed and all the typical answers one would suggest for tuning stability. Come on you Bigsby Wizz Kids. Help a brother out.

 

[Tonemeister]

Found this as an aftermarket replacement for the tension bar by Callaham. Callaham Vintage Guitars and Parts (Home)

 

[Tonemeister]

Bigsby bump

 

[RNP]

I have one on three of my guitars along with roller bridges. A B7 on a Les Paul has too much of a down angle between roller and bridge, I wanted to try something similar to the Callahan but from another company and emailed them for more information and they never replied. However I removed the roller, leaving the axle alone and the reduced diameter helped with the angle and pinching.

On my Explorer I had the same issue, but solved that by moving the Bigsby back towards the rear of the guitar by an inch - again, problem solved. The third Bigsby is on a Vintage AV-1 and that one has no problem returning to pitch.

 

[Tonemeister]

I just bought some FretWraps from GruvGear that I could probably attach behind the bridge and that would dampen the harmonics I'm getting with the roller off but would not be as clean a look as I would like. What was the "other" company you mentioned?

 

[Khshockey44]

What about putting locking tuners on it. When you get on the bigsby it will loosen the string tension on the wraps around the tuners and they might not fall in 100% where they were at making it come out of tune.

 

[dretot]

Tonemeister,
Have you considered going "the babe"/"batman" route? Add rubber grommets under the bigsby to shallow the break angle from the bridge. This helped my tuning issues, along with lubeing the nut.

A roller nut isn't necessary. The strings don't slide over the saddles during use, the whole abr rocks back and forth a bit.

My bigsby never goes out of tune, but I only use it for subtle vibrato/shimmer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdfXWnzPivg&list=UUfjIed8qFUx2YV7N5WhByaA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvNBFBhutWs&list=UUfjIed8qFUx2YV7N5WhByaA

 

[slapshot]

that's all their meant for really and do the job fantastically
whats your spring situation?I always went to a 1" spring on any sort of hollow body like a Gretsch or 335 gives a smoother action
bit of graphite powder on the tension bar bearings couldn't hurt either

 

[The_Electric_Smooth]

I agree with slapshot. grease it all.

 

[RNP]

I forget the name, but the guy is in Alaska and has a bunch of videos on YouTube about his adaptor for a Bigsby. It has a couple of extension arms that raise the height of roller above the axle so as to reduce the angle, but as I said, he never replied to my enquiry.

 

[slapshot]

The only thing that did work was when I removed the tension bar. The B7 was smooth as could be and I could wail on the bar (as a test and not in practical application)and it would stay in tune. This is how I have eliminated the nut and bridge saddles from the equation. The only problem was I was getting nasty harmonic overtones from the freely vibrating string length behind the bridge.

put a B6 on it? (middle) no tension bar & your string length is pretty much the same as the B7? would be a shallower break angle though as the strings sit up higher?

sorry thats a massive picture but it's the best illustration of the differences
tension bar works with the 335 ect as the ABR sits low and the B6 works on a Gretsch ect cause the bridge sits up way higher on a rosewood base so the string angles are right

 

[charlie chitlins]

Tension bars are a hassle, in my experience...I guess you could try buffing it to mirror.
I'd just take it out.
For my money, sounds behind the bridge are meaningless.
On an electric guitar, it's what comes out the speaker that counts.

 

[electricfactory]

What great timing for this thread, am myself planning on adding a B7+Vibramate to this, hope I don't run into any problems..

 

[Tonemeister]

Tension bars are a hassle, in my experience...I guess you could try buffing it to mirror.
I'd just take it out.
For my money, sounds behind the bridge are meaningless.
On an electric guitar, it's what comes out the speaker that counts.

The harmonic resonance I'm getting is dissonant. It is audible through the pickups. It sounds awful. I'm going to experiment with buffing all the parts on the tension bar roller. Then I'll be lubing it up. If that fails I will prob remove it and try to figure out how to dampen the resonance behind the bridge.

 

[Tonemeister]

Tonemeister,
Have you considered going "the babe"/"batman" route? Add rubber grommets under the bigsby to shallow the break angle from the bridge. This helped my tuning issues, along with lubeing the nut.

I'm willing to try this. I'm currently searching all over the internet to get the recommended thickness of the grommets. Any clue? Also considered cutting felt washers from that compressed felt stuff they sell for putting under chair legs so they slide. I have some that are .17" thick.

 

[dretot]

I'm willing to try this. I'm currently searching all over the internet to get the recommended thickness of the grommets. Any clue? Also considered cutting felt washers from that compressed felt stuff they sell for putting under chair legs so they slide. I have some that are .17" thick.

I found an assortment pack that had various sizes at a hardware store. I believe I used the 1/2" diameter, 3/16th thick ones. (approx.)

Felt pads sound like a nice idea also.

good luck,
dre

 

[Tonemeister]

I found an assortment pack that had various sizes at a hardware store. I believe I used the 1/2" diameter, 3/16th thick ones. (approx.)

Felt pads sound like a nice idea also.

good luck,
dre

Thanks dretot. 3/16" is a little higher than I am going but I'm guessing since you did the mod on your LP the break angle was even more severe than what I am experiencing with my 335. I'm trying the felt pad thing. I am was able to cut pieces that follow the profile of the two front legs of the Bigsby. I am also putting a circular one under the long plate with the Bigsby logo on it. This should raise the tension bar by about .17" once installed. I already filed and sanded all the parts of the roller and the springs etc. Lubed them up with some Teflon Bike lube and reinstalled. I frickin' lost the large washer from under the bar. It must have fell off the table and a mouse found it and thought it would be cool for it's nest? I ordered some teflon sheets and am following a Dan Erliwine recommendation of changing some of the washers to teflon washers fashioned from 6"x12" sheets of varying thicknesses. I'll take some pics and if it all works out I'll post them up.

edit:
found the washer!

 

[Tonemeister]

It worked! My Bigsby now stays in tune. The ultimate solution is to bypass the tension bar. The overtones were too much though. By raising the whole Bigsby off the top of the guitar, the break angle is such that there is enough pressure to mute the strings behind the bridge but not so much that the tension roller can't return. This took me forever to figure out. I'm psyched I stuck with it though because now I can beat the hell out my vibrato and not worry about retuning so much.

 

[kboman]

I got a B3 for my Hagström Swede and I've had to do absolutely nothing to my guitar (which was quite a relief). A fully functioning Bigsby is a joy on any guitar!

 

[Tonemeister]

There is another forum member, jlb32, that owns the exact same guitar that I have from the same batch of 250 made. His guitar and bigsby are perfect, according to him. He had no problems since the day he received it. I've got 2 of the same guitars from the same batch of 250 that I got from two different sellers (Sweetwater and Wildwood Guitars) and both sucked balls when I got them. I can't explain this. At least I know how to fix it. It is possible that the Bigsbys I have are defective in some way or the top carve on the guitars are slightly lower than his. Dunno really.