BCRGreg is right- All a-posed dead wrong/dead weight!

Mookakian

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I think the added sustain lies more in the added harmonics, which in turn changes the way frequencies are heard as the volume fades, giving more sustain to certain parts of the frequency spectrum. I think i have some mad hatter in me somewhere:lol:
 

Drew224

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I have them on my LP and SG. Honestly I dont know what it is about them I like sonically, but I have had different tuners on several of my guitars, threw different sets I always noticed subtle changes, and eventually just grew to prefer Grovers.

I guess with the Klusons, the tone is more "open", with with Grovers theres a "tightness" and for the heavier blues/rock style I go for, that suits me. I do think these differences are really most noticable to the player who is in physical contact with the guitar and its vibrations, but if its something that can be heard thru recordings, alot of my favorite Gibson players/tones were associated with Grovers (Clapton, Page, Green, etc)

On one hand, lower mass metal absorbs the vibrations better, which leads to things like sustain, but conversely, if the mass is dense enough, the vibrations bounce right off and carry on through the strings and wood, which leads to enhances sustain. With guitars you find alot of low mass bridges that boast sustain, but in the world of bass, there are alot of high mass bridges that boats sustain, and from my experiences both do. Its up to the player to try all the options to learn which they prefer (assuming people can even pick up these sublties, which not everyone can I dont think)

I topwrap and use Grovers. Have to agree with Ben on this one. I don't think it's a matter of better, just what you prefer.
 

homenote

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I think the added sustain lies more in the added harmonics, which in turn changes the way frequencies are heard as the volume fades, giving more sustain to certain parts of the frequency spectrum. I think i have some mad hatter in me somewhere:lol:

Yes! Note blossom and decaying notes into harmonics is one of the effects/tone characteristics I am now experiencing with the lighter tuners.

Please elaborate. Is this a amp, guitar or pickups or all I've the above? :dude:
 

b-squared

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I'm getting Grovers on my Rist-build guitar...and looking forward to playing it. :D

BB
 

homenote

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Wouldn't it be cool if someone made interchangeable tips with different calibrated weights and mass so you could "fine tune your tone?"


........:hmm:
 

Quill

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I have them on my LP and SG. Honestly I dont know what it is about them I like sonically, but I have had different tuners on several of my guitars, threw different sets I always noticed subtle changes, and eventually just grew to prefer Grovers.

I guess with the Klusons, the tone is more "open", with with Grovers theres a "tightness" and for the heavier blues/rock style I go for, that suits me.

Hi, Ben!

I know Ben's guitars, and can attest, they are killer guitars that sound great. With the Grovers. Ok, I can really only say for sure that Ben's LP has Grovers. Don't remember what's on the SG, or the other ones. And I know my own LP and 335, and will firmly insist that my guitars are also killer guitars that sound great. And I'm a bit more sure, than I am about what's on Ben's guitars, that there are Klusons on my guitars. At least, that style. RS aged double-rings, on the 335. Are those Klusons, or copies? Idunno. They're great tuners, whatever they are. Stock, on the LP. Japanese remakes, I believe. Very nice tuners. Guitar tunes up great, stays in tune like an in-tune-forever kind of dream, sings like a bird. Tried out lots of other LPs with Grovers. Awesome. Ben, I don't think the difference can be characterized any more clearly than you have typed it out here.

They're just different colours. Can a colour be good or bad? I like colours.
 

homenote

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Hi, Ben!

I know Ben's guitars, and can attest, they are killer guitars that sound great. With the Grovers. Ok, I can really only say for sure that Ben's LP has Grovers. Don't remember what's on the SG, or the other ones. And I know my own LP and 335, and will firmly insist that my guitars are also killer guitars that sound great. And I'm a bit more sure, than I am about what's on Ben's guitars, that there are Klusons on my guitars. At least, that style. RS aged double-rings, on the 335. Are those Klusons, or copies? Idunno. They're great tuners, whatever they are. Stock, on the LP. Japanese remakes, I believe. Very nice tuners. Guitar tunes up great, stays in tune like an in-tune-forever kind of dream, sings like a bird. Tried out lots of other LPs with Grovers. Awesome. Ben, I don't think the difference can be characterized any more clearly than you have typed it out here.

They're just different colours. Can a colour be good or bad? I like colours.[/QUOTE\]

Very good point! :naughty:
 

Benjammin

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Hi, Ben!

I know Ben's guitars, and can attest, they are killer guitars that sound great. With the Grovers. Ok, I can really only say for sure that Ben's LP has Grovers. Don't remember what's on the SG, or the other ones. And I know my own LP and 335, and will firmly insist that my guitars are also killer guitars that sound great. And I'm a bit more sure, than I am about what's on Ben's guitars, that there are Klusons on my guitars. At least, that style. RS aged double-rings, on the 335. Are those Klusons, or copies? Idunno. They're great tuners, whatever they are. Stock, on the LP. Japanese remakes, I believe. Very nice tuners. Guitar tunes up great, stays in tune like an in-tune-forever kind of dream, sings like a bird. Tried out lots of other LPs with Grovers. Awesome. Ben, I don't think the difference can be characterized any more clearly than you have typed it out here.

They're just different colours. Can a colour be good or bad? I like colours.

Hey Tim :wave: Yes, your LP has Klusons, and I did put Grovers on my SG also, and with that RS lightweight tailpeice I got from you, and because the pickups are mounted directly to the body, that guitar is a sustain machine, much more than the LP.

DSCF1418.jpg
 

lp_junkie

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I change out Grovers for Klusons, always have preferred the Kluson design.
So before I really knew anything about tone, mass, etc. I got them because that's what was on the "real" Les Pauls from the 50's.

Now I just prefer them period.
 

JMV

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I just went from Klusons to Grovers on my R8 and I love them. Funny, the wire on the ABR wasn't an issue before the swap but now it vibrates like crazy when I play.

It seems my guitar is more resonant now. Now I need to switch out to that Pigtail wireless ABR. :thumb:
 

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Any and all metals affect tone, is that what we are saying. I would have to agree. I have several strats with different blocks and they all sound diff. I would imagine that tuners,stop , and bridge would also make a difference. To me everything can and does affects tone if it comes in contact with string vibration and electronics.
 

homenote

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Any and all metals affect tone, is that what we are saying. I would have to agree. I have several strats with different blocks and they all sound diff. I would imagine that tuners,stop , and bridge would also make a difference. To me everything can and does affects tone if it comes in contact with string vibration and electronics.

And I totally agree. There is a tone chain as well as a " food chain." I too have the pigtail stop tails, abr bridges and so on. It was when I put on the final link on my LP(the tunes) that it all clicked for that guitar. I wonder if there are ideal weights for certain model guitars to achieve specific typs of tone and feels?(open, focused, overtones etc.)

Like a LP 9lbs or less usually behaves and sounds like xyz .
 

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I dunno man. I really like the grovers on the pauls I own that have the grovers. Its not something I pay attention too but I tend to play my customs and standards with the grovers.
 

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I have a '61 LP SG Standard on which the original Klusons wore out ant the keys turned to dust. I replaces them with Tone Pro Klusons of the exact same design. My objection to them is they are hard to tune and hard to get to stay in tune. I would have replaced these tuners with Shallers, but I wanted to keep that guitar original.

As far as the TP comparison goes, the cast zinc stock TP on my Epi LP was crap. I now have two TPs I use on that guitar. One is a much lighter machined aluminum TP, and the other is a much heavier machined brass TP. They both sound better than the stock TP, but they are different. the aluminum one is brighter and the brass one is darker. But they are both very good, and I change out on that guitar from time to time.
 

weirdotis

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I personally can't tell the difference in tone (not that I've really A/B'd the two), but the physics are all there so it makes sense to me that some people with better ears than me will be able to tell the difference. :thumb:
 

Mookakian

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I have a '61 LP SG Standard on which the original Klusons wore out ant the keys turned to dust. I replaces them with Tone Pro Klusons of the exact same design. My objection to them is they are hard to tune and hard to get to stay in tune. I would have replaced these tuners with Shallers, but I wanted to keep that guitar original.

As far as the TP comparison goes, the cast zinc stock TP on my Epi LP was crap. I now have two TPs I use on that guitar. One is a much lighter machined aluminum TP, and the other is a much heavier machined brass TP. They both sound better than the stock TP, but they are different. the aluminum one is brighter and the brass one is darker. But they are both very good, and I change out on that guitar from time to time.

Good post dolebludger, direct, simple and agreed:thumb:
 

52trapeze

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Yep there is a difference. I however prefer Grovers.
 

markguitar

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Agreed 1-4. :laugh2:

But this is my point, I am no were near the badass as Glen but I have almost the exact same set
up/guitar and rig and it was the change out of the tuners that DID make the difference in final tone. Better? Um yes it's better to me.

So you have an original Burst and Trainwreck you're playing?? I thought you started this thread talking about a Rist guitar. :hmm:
 

homenote

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So you have an original Burst and Trainwreck you're playing?? I thought you started this thread talking about a Rist guitar. :hmm:

No I said "almost the exact same setup." :laugh2:

I'm playing a Max Burst and a Ken Fisher modded Comet 60 with Nos Mullard tubes on a 4-12 25w pre rolas/ slant checkerboard cab.

Close enough bro and a upgrade on the guitar imop. :slash::dude:

Hey Mark, have you gotn any good PAFs in lately? PM me if you do bro! Always a pleasure.
 

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