Autotune is not the devil!

[Phil47uk]

Exactly. She can sing. The other performances that have been linked in this thread, the current big stars, sound like shit without the crutch.

Dead right Steve and that's my argument about the whole issue and not the effect as a studio tool.

 

[Phil47uk]

Nah Phil - you old f*****s have the edge on me. I'm only 58 years young.....
.....although I could use some bloody AutoTune on my fingers and wrists sometimes.

Does MH still play that two-necked jobby he used to use?
Does he have two AutoTuners - one for each neck

No Mick hasn't got that any more I don't think. He uses a mega heavy reverse Thunderbird, or is it Firebird bass... Jesus that thing weighs a ton.
He's still got the same Acoustic amp setup though which he calls 'Gort'.
It's got an American transformer so he has to use a UK voltage transformer on stage. He wont use digital stuff and the bloody transformer he carries around is something from the second world war. A bloody huge metal box with handles.
If you want to meet Luddite then you have to meet Mick.. He's one of the characters from the old school. But saying that I am nowhere neer as bad as he is and nor are most people. He won't record unless it's analogue, he wont use a mobile phone. He uses an old Pentax 35mm and sends his rolls of films away to be developed. I showed him my digital camera and Adobe Photoshop and he nearly had a fit. He does use one effect however which he keeps quite about because it's digital. A Bass Balls pedal.

 

[rockstar232007]

IMHO, Auto-tuning is = Airbrushing in magazines! It sets a standard that in order to be a good musician, you have to sound "perfect", which is totally against what true music (especially R&R) is all about!

As many others have stated, music isn't supposed to be "perfect". It's supposed to be a vehicle used to convey/express our inner most feelings, and when you start using things like this, it takes most of the emotion/human element out of the equation.

Here's an idea, instead of forming bands/gigging, why don't we all just sit on our butts and create whole albums of nothing but songs composed of MIDI tracks?

 

[Joeydego]

IMHO, Auto-tuning is = Airbrushing in magazines! It sets a standard that in order to be a good musician, you have to sound "perfect", which is totally against what true music (especially R&R) is all about!

As many others have stated, music isn't supposed to be "perfect". It's supposed to be a vehicle used to convey/express our inner most feelings, and when you start using things like this, it takes most of the emotion/human element out of the equation.

Here's an idea, instead of forming bands/gigging, why don't we all just sit on our butts and create whole albums of nothing but songs composed of MIDI tracks?

Ive used midi extensively to create drum, bass and keyboard parts and amp sims to run my guitars thru. They arent AS good as todays sounds, but easily compete with the instrumental guitar stuff around 10 years ago. If for nothing else, its an invaluable tool for demoing and writing parts.

 

[Joeydego]

IMHO, Auto-tuning is = Airbrushing in magazines!

thats fair. I agree.

 

[Thumpalumpacus]

Tomayto, tomahto. Some guitarists play with effects, and some hate them. What is the voice but simply the first instrument?

It ain't for me, I don't care for it, and I wouldn't use it, for effect or for subtle tracking fixes. But that's me.

 

[Thermionik]

Phil - Those EH Bass Balls are a great effect. Even on guitar rather than bass - kinda vocal sounding, very under-rated. As for it "being digital" - I don't think so..... it's two DoctorQ units on one board set a couple of octaves apart, op-amps and transistors in a good old-fashioned analogue design. Nothing digital in there. Tell Mick he's safe..... for now.

 

[paulygates]

I have almost no experience with Autotune but I will tell the story anyway.

About a year ago we recorded our first gig with the aim of producing a demo. My good friend, Kev, recorded it using Logic and we later took the raw recording and overdubbed a few guitar parts which were a bit sloppy. There was also a song which was fine in its raw state - not perfect but warts an' all - which had a big clam (I went into the chorus too early). Rather than punch in or rerecord the track Kev said he could just take a slice of the verse from elsewhere and copy and paste it. He did this seemlessly, so it was all good.

Another song we noticed the bass sounded out of tune. Not that noticably but the more we heard it the more jarring it was. Rather than arrange a session with the bassist we thought pitch correction may save the day. Well it didn't work, unfortunately. There were a few massive slides up the fretboard which sounded horribley autotuned. It was the slides which told us that the bass needed the intonation sorting.

So we had to rerecord the bass anyway. The point is it could have saved us the bother if it worked and in certain situations it is as valuable a tool as being able to copy and paste sections of a track.

 

[HRC]

.. And those of us who do care, do not buy their crap.

+1

 

[SkunkWorks]

snip

(its NOT a rackmount piece of gear like one poster suggested),

snip.

Antares News & Reviews

sorry if it has been pointed out already, I haven't finished the thread yet.

 

[Drew224]

Antares News & Reviews

sorry if it has been pointed out already, I haven't finished the thread yet.

Yes it has, but thank you.

 

[Skintaster]

Phil - Those EH Bass Balls are a great effect. Even on guitar rather than bass - kinda vocal sounding, very under-rated. As for it "being digital" - I don't think so..... it's two DoctorQ units on one board set a couple of octaves apart, op-amps and transistors in a good old-fashioned analogue design. Nothing digital in there. Tell Mick he's safe..... for now.

I might be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's an analog effect as well... Unless they've changed the design of the unit. Weren't they introduced in the mid 70's? Again, I might be wrong... I just seem to remember a friend of mine having one in the late 80's, and it looked fairly old then.

Of course, at the age of 41, I'm noticing that things like "super accurate memory" aren't what they used to be.

 

[SkunkWorks]

Most engineers don't even know about song dynamics and volume anymore! Of course most of them don't know a damn thing about the music itself!

Actually they do, but I know what you're referring to and that's not their call. If you want to make a living at a dying art in a spiraling industry and put food on your table you do what the artist, producer or record company wants regardless of how you feel about the loudness wars. That's what makes you a professional.

 

[SkunkWorks]

snip

Interesting how worked up and full of opinions the topic is.

snip.

I didn't expect anything less. This dead horse has been beaten ad nauseum over at the other forum I come from... the one where many actually work (or struggle to work) in the recording industry and usually know a bit about what they're talking about... first hand.

Have had a good laugh though at some of the stuff I'm reading here and I'm not even half way through. Sooo much misinformation and opinion stated as fact and numbers and figures pulled out of one's arse. Some things I'm reading are just plain "dude, are you fvckin' serious?" Not singling anyone out, I'm seeing it on both sides.

Can't wait to see how this all ends but I need to get some sleep soon

YouTube - Imogen Heap - Hide And Seek (Official Music Video)

What about a vocoder? Imogen heap recorded this through vocoder, using a keyboard to generate the sound. It is her voice modified through a piece of equipment. Does it make her fake?

Actually I know that alot of what people are complaining about as the blatant use/misuse of autotune as an effect in some current music is actually vocoding and not autotune.

Can you provide an example of this? Just out of curiousity.

...

dude, are you fvckin' serious?


... just kidding

This is different. The vocoder in this case is being used as an effect, not an aid. A bit like the Cher thing. There is a vast difference in my opinion.

And so is the type of blatant autotune that everyone seems to despise. The type that is being used as an aid you will probably never notice if the engineer has done his job and not just thrown it into "auto" mode and called it a day. I'll bet you'd be surprised to find out what talented artists it's been used on without anyone knowing... sometimes even that artist them-self. Someone posted a picture of a very talented well known female vocalist over at my other forum where she is wearing a t-shirt that says "autotune is for pussies." What was so funny about it is there are acapella vocal stems floating around the web from songs from her first album ripped from the rock band game where if you listen, and you are familiar with autotune's artifacts even when used in moderation, it's quite obvious she was tuned. Someone said "I wonder if she knows?"

By the way, there are much netter programs available than autotune for doing this type of thing. Melodyne is one of them.

I can damn well tell you who ISN'T using it. Green Day, all things Jack White, all indie music that is not pop and probably some that is, and most definitely a large percentage of current alt bands, major label or not, aren't, because their singers are good live. They aren't going to make too many mistakes, and many of them are so dedicated to the honesty of their art that they aren't chasing that dream of pop excess and celebrity. So small mistakes are okay.

Drew, do you know this for a fact? Once again I say, I'll bet you'd be surprised who it gets used on, sometimes at the discretion of the producer long after the session has ended and the artist isn't even aware it was done.

snip...

They really need to find their own "thing", and that applies to music as well.

Well "their thing" is this exact stuff everyone here seems to despise. Don't people get that? If you're old enough to be their parent (or grandparent) then you're NOT SUPPOSED TO LIKE IT! It's called a generation gap and that's the way it's supposed to be. Just like your parents couldn't stand the crap you put on a pedestal at that age and in many cases still do. That's what rock and roll (and yes, this is THEIR rock and roll) is about.

And for what it's worth, I'm pretty much an old dog now myself, but I do get it.

 

[Phil47uk]

Phil - Those EH Bass Balls are a great effect. Even on guitar rather than bass - kinda vocal sounding, very under-rated. As for it "being digital" - I don't think so..... it's two DoctorQ units on one board set a couple of octaves apart, op-amps and transistors in a good old-fashioned analogue design. Nothing digital in there. Tell Mick he's safe..... for now.

Ah, that explains why he has one then.. It's all starting to make sense now.. Mick is so anti digital it's not true.
Actually I tell a lie.. We did manage to talk him round into getting a computer, although he insists all he uses it for is sending e-mail coz it's cheaper than buying stamps..

 

[Phil47uk]

And so is the type of blatant autotune that everyone seems to despise. The type that is being used as an aid you will probably never notice if the engineer has done his job and not just thrown it into "auto" mode and called it a day. I'll bet you'd be surprised to find out what talented artists it's been used on without anyone knowing... sometimes even that artist them-self. Someone posted a picture of a very talented well known female vocalist over at my other forum where she is wearing a t-shirt that says "autotune is for pussies." What was so funny about it is there are acapella vocal stems floating around the web from songs from her first album ripped from the rock band game where if you listen, and you are familiar with autotune's artifacts even when used in moderation, it's quite obvious she was tuned. Someone said "I wonder if she knows?"

Oh I'm sure there are lots of people using it who claim not to, but the proof of the pudding always comes out in a live performance. The word soon gets round and luckily so far I have only ever met singers who can sing, or singers who think they can, but can't . The one who can't you don't book back again..

What ever happened to talent eh?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eWJ17ZCf4s]YouTube - New Day[/ame]


Anyone want to hear some more vocal talent without an autotune in sight?.. Check out the delivery power and spot on intonation whizzing up and down arpeggios at , 2:50 and even more at 4:15..Now that's talent.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvuKxL4LOqc[/ame]

Now compare those to this heap of shit and you'll know why I rant and rave .. No! Not the musical genre..the musical talent..

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vId0KOlY6V8[/ame]

 

[Joeydego]

I for one hope I never fall victim of a generation gap where I snub new technologies in both the guitar and recording industry, or in anything for that matter. Nothing positive can come from closing yourself to something new. Contrary to popular belief, there has been some EXCELLENT music recorded in the last 10 years. I'm sure plenty of it was snapped to grid, autotuned, processed and smashed to within an inch of its life. Its just todays sound. Like the envelope filter was the 70's, and it almost cant be used today without thinking 70's porn. No different.

 

[KP]

I for one hope I never fall victim of a generation gap where I snub new technologies in both the guitar and recording industry, or in anything for that matter. Nothing positive can come from closing yourself to something new. Contrary to popular belief, there has been some EXCELLENT music recorded in the last 10 years. I'm sure plenty of it was snapped to grid, autotuned, processed and smashed to within an inch of its life. Its just todays sound. Like the envelope filter was the 70's, and it almost cant be used today without thinking 70's porn. No different.

Talent has nothing to do with generational gaps. There were talented musicians 400 years ago and there are talented musicians today. My only problem is when the "industry" decides to take a no-talent hack with a pretty face and try and turn them into "stars". That is happening way too much. If you can only "sing" in the studio and sound like crap live; then someone is messing with the product.

 

[Phil47uk]

I for one hope I never fall victim of a generation gap where I snub new technologies in both the guitar and recording industry, or in anything for that matter. Nothing positive can come from closing yourself to something new. Contrary to popular belief, there has been some EXCELLENT music recorded in the last 10 years. I'm sure plenty of it was snapped to grid, autotuned, processed and smashed to within an inch of its life. Its just todays sound. Like the envelope filter was the 70's, and it almost cant be used today without thinking 70's porn. No different.

Of course you will fall victim to the generation gap..No maybe, if and but. It's a fact of life. It's been going on for millions of years and you certainly wont be the first to change things.
Joeydego...You seem to have slightly misconstrued what a lot of the older guys in here have said though..
You assume that by someone knocking autotune they are snubbing new technology. I for one have never said that.. I am knocking the artist not the equipment. It is a great inovation, but it should not be used as a substiute for talent and the years of hard work some people have put into perfecting and honing their skills. That to me is an insult, whether you are a seasoned musician, or a newcomer to the business. Talent is talent and that has bridged generations of young and old in all walks of life since the dawn of time.

 

[Joeydego]

Yes Phil, with that I agree and found middle ground. But now I gotta drop the O bomb.
Talentless hacks did NOT start becoming successful with the invention of pitch correction. Long before pitch correction there was Ozzy. The man is a fantastic entertainer and clearly has a talent for picking legendary guitar players, but he can't sing his way out of a canary cage. At least autotune makes these people SOUND better.
Avril is far better on the eyes though.