Australia's Solution To Gun Violence

[Barcham]

Thanks for the explanations, guys. I personally own three guns, two shotguns and one .308 Savage rifle and have not fired them for a number of years as I no longer hunt. The only reason I still own them is because they were passed down to me by my grandfather. In fact one of the shotguns was custom made for him when he owned a business importing hunting weapons. But one thing I never considered when hunting was whether the gun was 'fun' to shoot or not. I used my guns to kill, not to have fun with. What mattered to me was that they were accurate and killed with the most efficiency and least pain for the game I was hunting.

Whether that was a result of how I was raised or a difference in our cultures, I cannot say. But it does show a difference that I feel is pertinent to the discussion. When someone is raised to believe that the only purpose of owning a gun is to kill something, it has to make a difference in how one looks at gun ownership.

 

[RedSkwirrell]

Could you summarise all that?

 

[Ermghoti]

There are a lot of manufacturers of guns in the US, and when you have a group who share an economic interest, you have a political constituency. Politicians make decisions based on what constituents can help advance them, and who they can safely ignore.

Gun policy in the US is about economic interests. That's not a conspiracy theory, that's politics.

All firearm manufacturers combined have annual sales about equal to one day of one tobacco company's sales. The political power rests in some hundred-odd million gun owners, and the groups they pay to represent their interests.

 

[Gin&Pentatonic]

Don't get caught up in what the weapon looks like--the 'scary looking' military-style arms and the wooden stock rifle have the same basic operating mechanism, have the same firing rates, and some can hold the same high-capacity magazines.

Good point. I completely agree that simply the look of those "sleek Black death machines" puts them already at a disadvantage, despite the mechanics. The Springfield M1A is a good example. Offered with either a walnut or black composite stock. Same gun. But I'd wager if you took a random sample and asked them "which of these guns is more dangerous?", they'd pick the black one.

 

[MineGoesTo11]

All firearm manufacturers combined have annual sales about equal to one day of one tobacco company's sales. The political power rests in some hundred-odd million gun owners, and the groups they pay to represent their interests.

NRA Raises $200 Million as Gun Lobby Toasters Burn Logo on Bread - Bloomberg

A toaster that burns the National Rifle Association’s logo onto bread fetched $650 at an auction last month, just one reflection of the money-making power in the gun group’s brand.
The NRA, which began as a grassroots organization dedicated to teaching marksmanship, enters the 2012 election season as a lobbying, merchandising and marketing machine that brings in more than $200 million a year and intends to help unseat the incumbent president. From 2004 to 2010, the group’s revenue from fundraising -- including gifts from gun makers who benefit from its political activism -- grew twice as fast as its income from members’ dues, according to NRA tax returns.
Enlarge image
A National Rifle Association (NRA) branded toaster is arranged for a photograph in Gardnerville, Nevada. Photographer: David Calvert/Bloomberg
Enlarge image
Toast with the National Rifle Association (NRA) logo burned into it is arranged for a photograph in Gardnerville, Nevada. Photographer: David Calvert/Bloomberg
More than 50 firearms-related companies have given at least $14.8 million to the Fairfax, Virginia-based group, according to the NRA’s own list for a donor program that began in 2005. That same year, NRA lobbyists helped win passage of a federal law that limited liability claims against gun makers. Former NRA President Sandy Froman wrote that it “saved the American gun industry from bankruptcy.”
“Unlike organizations which start out controlled by industry and created by industry, like lobbying groups for coal or oil, they really started out as a grassroots organization and became an industry organization,” said William Vizzard, a former agent of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms who’s now a professor of criminal justice at California State University in Sacramento. He studied the NRA for a 2000 book on gun policy.

 

[slapshot]

yes it worked here but if it happened sooner I might have a better 17th birthday though
how many of these gun rights protestors* blah blah have ever been involved in a gun crime though wether a madman in a shopping mall or a ****ing idiot putting a sawn off to your head at a 7-11 when you call in after a 3rd shift on a quiet mid week night?

I know I'm not walking away from the 3rd time .....

Don't get caught up in what the weapon looks like--the 'scary looking' military-style arms and the wooden stock rifle have the same basic operating mechanism, have the same firing rates, and some can hold the same high-capacity magazines.

no shit.AK47 is what all the bad guys in war moves have.the SKS looks like belongs on a parade ground.both have the same end game


*the policy makers,politicians,lobby groups & the like.

 

[Blues4U]

yes it worked here but if it happened sooner I might have a better 17th birthday though
how many of these gun rights protestors blah blah have ever been involved in a gun crime though wether a madman in a shopping mall or a ****ing idiot putting a sawn off to your head at a 7-11 when you call in after a 3rd shift on a quiet mid week night?

I know I'm not walking away from the 3rd time .....

I was alone house sitting and was a would be victim of a Home Invasion---

3 guys in---I am still here to tell the story because of a Smith and Wesson 686 .357 and a Remington 870 12 ga---I'll leave it at that---

When people enter your home armed, and shooting, well, you better have a plan and skills, as well as the tools to defend yourself-

 

[slapshot]

my bad was directing towards policy makers & the like not the mlp membership.

 

[Ermghoti]

More than 50 firearms-related companies have given at least $14.8 million

LOL. Chump change. It took 50 companies to contribute 1/3 of what it cost to buy Elizabeth Warren a Senate seat.

Edit:

rings in more than $200 million a year

Double LOL. That's 7% of their fundraising.

 

[Blues4U]

No problem.

Truth is, idiots with guns, cars, dogs and kids cause plenty of harm to civilization as a whole.

 

[MineGoesTo11]

LOL. Chump change. It took 50 companies to contribute 1/3 of what it cost to buy Elizabeth Warren a Senate seat.

Edit:



Double LOL. That's 7% of their fundraising.

They contributed to a lobbying group that put politics in motion to get legislation passed limiting liability for gun manufacturers, which saved them from very costly lawsuits and potential bankruptcy. Policy would not have been steered in such a specific direction without the 14 million.

Politics works exactly as previously mentioned.

 

[Ermghoti]

Policy would not have been steered in such a specific direction without the 14 million.

Correct, it would have been steered with only 186 million, contributed overwhelmingly by members.

 

[lespaul01]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8RDWltHxRc]Watch what happens when Guns are banned in Australia - YouTube[/ame]

 

[slapshot]

an absolutely ridiculous biased 1 sided out of date unsubstantiated "story" full of pure sensationalism evident by the seppo voice over.

 

[PraXis]

I don't care what other countries do. Their laws have no impact on ours. If some people like these other countries so much, then please move there and leave us alone.

 

[Roberteaux]

I know people that are gunsmith's----They have the tools, and ability to make a firearm from scratch--I mean, they can take raw materials and turn them into a functioning, accurate weapon-

It's not rocket science, that's for sure, and one need not be a true gunsmith just to crank out functional small arms of several types, all of which have been proven on the battlefield.

Any small machine shop could easily begin to produce firearms of pretty much any type, and in World War II, most of them did. One can do the same thing with simple hand tools, if they are at all patient. They just wouldn't be able to mass produce firearms using simple hand tools and welding equipment, which would considerably limit their output.

But still: there are a lot of firearms that are actually fairly easy to fabricate. One's final product won't be a slick-ass "modern" firearm, but submachineguns such as the sten, the M3 greasegun, and various other fully-automatic weapons of that generation are pretty much a cinch to fabricate.

AK and SKS rifles are also a snap to manufacture-- just as they were designed to be. The VC used to make them on homemade lathes out in the middle of the jungle, and their "welding equipment" amounted to a very simple forge and bellows.

Literally millions of people have been slain by the humble, rudimentary AK. And one gun leads to another, so long as a person is willing to dry-gulch cops, soldiers, guardsmen, security officers, or any other person who happens to be carrying one.

Fortunately, most young folks these days don't know a mill bastard from a boring bar, and have very few practical trade skills of any type to draw from-- and no apparent desire to learn how to do much of anything of that sort themselves. Instead, we have a bumper crop of sociology students, psych majors, and soft scientists of all types...

You will never, not ever eliminate guns from any society, if any member of that society wants one--NEVER!

This is a fact. In reality, the hardest thing to produce are primers for centerfire ammunition, and of course homemade gunpowder isn't as nice as the factory-produced smokeless stuff. But even these obstacles can be overcome.

In addition to the manufacture of various types of weaponry that a small shop can achieve, we have the matter of black market trafficking of weapons, the theft of military hardware, weapons being smuggled back and forth, und so weiter. Clyde Barrow was famously enamored of the M1918A2 Browning Automatic Rifle, and used them frequently in his various capers. Every last one of those weapons was pilfered from a military armory.

One also cannot totally prevent a hostile foreign power from arming those citizens of a country who are militantly opposed to the ruling clique. What has the gun ban Israel imposed on Hamas really done? Does it appear as if it is impossible for them to get military-grade small arms, Katyusha rockets, explosives, and so forth?

The biggest gun dealers in the world are the five member nations of the UN Security Council, incidentally...

And funnily enough, I have noticed that in those countries which have some sort of total ban on firearms, those who do have them tend to be gangsters and government despots... or gangsters who ARE government despots.

Consider the case of Mexico: despite the total ban on firearms ownership imposed on her citizens, the so-called Drug War down there has produced close to 50,000 deaths since 2006... and for the most part, the cartel guys appear to be armed mainly with real military small arms, and not so much with the semiautomatic knockoffs that everybody tends to fixate on and become upset by.

If there's any reason to be in possession of firearms, then somebody will find a way to get their hands on them. Failing that, they will make them.

Hell, they taught us how to make various high explosives from things such as saltpeter and pig shit when I went through Special Forces school back in the 70's... but sometimes I think they only taught us such things so that we would understand that it was possible for us to fight under almost any circumstances.

Then too, it must have been very amusing for the TAC cadre to watch us grossing out while mucking around with buckets of pig shit...

--R

 

[cherryles]

The Fat Aussie Barst..d thinks it would be a better idea to spend A$1.50 on a single bullet for a convicted mass murderer than $900.00 per day to keep him in prison for the rest of his life.

Whatever your thoughts are on that, one things for sure, Fat Aussie Barst..d sure does know how to stir things up and get plenty of hits on his page, the guys nuts, i enjoy some of his videos but others are awful.

Strong Language!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKz0GddWAVk&list=UUAYab0HzrnzAYfS-iKOkZTA&index=1]MASS MURDERER GLORIFIED BY ARTIST - $35000.00paid - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Sinster]

Without the internet and even cable all these gun deaths wouldn't be so in our face.

 

[DRF]

Countries and populations are different yes, but there is a ripple effect on the policies. I guarantee that in Canada which has strict gun laws already -and after this recent school shooting- there are many many people saying "There ya go, see, we need tighter laws".

Especially after Canada just removed its long gun registry. Everytime a tragedy happens I cringe at what attitudes are being reinforced.

You can post endless statistics showing crime rates rising despite gun control but that fact of the matter is the people who are in favour of severe gun control just don't wan't them in the equation at all. They don't care about graphs.

 

[PeteK]

Countries and populations are different yes, but there is a ripple effect on the policies. I guarantee that in Canada which has strict gun laws already -and after this recent school shooting- there are many many people saying "There ya go, see, we need tighter laws".

Especially after Canada just removed its long gun registry. Everytime a tragedy happens I cringe at what attitudes are being reinforced.

You can post endless statistics showing crime rates rising despite gun control but that fact of the matter is the people who are in favour of severe gun control just don't wan't them in the equation at all. They don't care about graphs.

Did you look at the graphs in the OP? I know it was a very long post, but it seemed to be pro gun control statistics.