Are these real patent # pickups?

jzucker

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i'm looking at buying a used 1962 Gibson Barney Kessel and these are photos of the pickup bottoms. I'm a little suspicious that both stickers are partially removed but from what I can tell of what's left, they look ok. Kessel guitars are notorious for being parted out and the seller wants $4300 which would be very expensive if it turns out to be fake pickups.

Additionally, the guitar has a poorly repaired strap button screw hole which doesn't bother me but I just want to make sure that it's sellable down the road...

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mdittman

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i'm looking at buying a used 1962 Gibson Barney Kessel and these are photos of the pickup bottoms. I'm a little suspicious that both stickers are partially removed but from what I can tell of what's left, they look ok. Kessel guitars are notorious for being parted out and the seller wants $4300 which would be very expensive if it turns out to be fake pickups.

Additionally, the guitar has a poorly repaired strap button screw hole which doesn't bother me but I just want to make sure that it's sellable down the road...

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I may be wrong but I believe the patent stickers didn't start till a few years later although those do appear to be real ones. If I'm right either the pickups have been replaced or the date of the guitar is a bit later.
 

VictorB

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The pickups look legit. Here are mine:

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judson

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markings on the feet...

and those covers have been off

thats all i got cuz im a newb at most of this stuff.....but thats why im here :rofl:
 

jzucker

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seems the most likely thing is that the original pafs were replaced with patent numbers and the covers were swapped to gold.
 

cooljuk

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I just see the same things you guys do. Some patent number baseplates with unoriginal solder. With the covers having been off, nobody could say more than that from the bottoms-only photos.

Post some detailed photos of the pickups' insides, and I could probably say more.
 

el84ster

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This might not mean a thing, but the ground wire that’s wrapped around the braided wire (that grounds the strings via the tailpiece) is different than that used on my ‘64 L5. Maybe they changed between those years? or maybe that indicates a pickup swap. Here’s a pick from inside my ‘64.
But regardless of question of originality to the guitar, from what we can see they look legit to me.
96F812BF-A540-4D6F-BFBD-4FF75D5BD768.jpeg
 

TM1

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I owned a ‘63 Kessel for many years. It had one Pat.# and one PAF. The wire wrapped around the braided wires looks correct They still do that to this day. In the Kessel’s the bridge pickups magnet is flipped so when both pickups are on, it’s out of phase.It says in the catalogue that it’s a “Special” feature. I forget what the exact wording is, I’ll have to pull out my ‘65 catalouge. Nice guitars! Those were built, one at a time in a special dept. at Kalamazoo.
 

kakerlak

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You confident that's a clumsy strap button hole repair, and not some sort of funky dowel/screw neck reset? Looks a little like there's a separation line at the end of the binding from the heel-to-body on the back, though that could also be some minor binding shrink, but that heavy crazing at the heel kind of looks like something that happens to overspray, etc.

Just seems like a really big circle of weird finish in the middle, too. All feels suspect for fixing what should've been like a 1/16" screw hole -- the kind of thing you can fill with a glob of putty or a snapped off toothpick. I would ask for super high res, fully focused pictures of that spot on the heel if you can't see the guitar in person. And, since the pickups are out, see if they can get a cell phone into the hole to snap some pics of the neck block. $4k + is enough money to nitpick and demand photos, etc.

And, is the finish that dark/opaque/purple anywhere else on the guitar, or just on the heel? Even accounting for the difference b/w red-over-mahogany vs maple, it looks funny to me -- that spot in particular.
 

judson

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This might not mean a thing, but the ground wire that’s wrapped around the braided wire (that grounds the strings via the tailpiece) is different than that used on my ‘64 L5. Maybe they changed between those years? or maybe that indicates a pickup swap. Here’s a pick from inside my ‘64.
But regardless of question of originality to the guitar, from what we can see they look legit to me. View attachment 512900
cool pic...i took one like that in my resonator shpwing where the neck was joined as i thought it iwas going to need a reset....

i was looking at yours and didnt know what the heck i was looking at then i read this was a hollow-body ...:doh:
 


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