Are there actual guidelines for grading flame tops from 1A to 5A ?

[reborn old]

I did a search and didn't really come up with anything useful.

I realize that rating a guitar flame top is more or less personal exercise,
yet there does seem to be a general consensus on the nicer examples out there. Prices for certain reissue models confirms this, (in my mind at least).

The 1A to 5A top grading system seems like a really poorly defined "smoke and mirrors" rating system or even a marketing tactic to me, rather than a truly scientific grading standard. I know this is made more difficult by the fact every guitar top is unique but...

can any builders shed light or offer any info or history on this grading system ?

Thanks.

 

[ihavenofish]

I did a search and didn't really come up with anything useful.

I realize that rating a guitar flame top is more or less personal exercise,
yet there does seem to be a general consensus on the nicer examples out there. Prices for certain reissue models confirms this, (in my mind at least).

The 1A to 5A top grading system seems like a really poorly defined "smoke and mirrors" rating system or even a marketing tactic to me, rather than a truly scientific grading standard. I know this is made more difficult by the fact every guitar top is unique but...

can any builders shed light or offer any info or history on this grading system ?

Thanks.

the lumber indusrty uses 1, 2 and 3a for figure. anything above that is made up by each seller. of course, alot of people will take industry 1a lumber and mark is 3 or 5a, just for kicks.

basically, if you like it buy it. the price you pay is for the service of someone sorting it for you.

 

[slapshot]

damn good question ..... damn good
never seen anything described as 1a "flame" top though?
A grade solid maple top is the closest I think I've seen.And that was a plain top

 

[ihavenofish]

damn good question ..... damn good
never seen anything described as 1a "flame" top though?
A grade solid maple top is the closest I think I've seen.And that was a plain top

A-grade plain. thats a funny one. people will write anything on it to jack the price up, but having a rating system where everyone fabricates their own meaning is kinda pointless i think.

 

[bruce bennett]

reborn old, you right when you say that it seems like smoke and mirrors..

a guy named Bruce Ross set some gradeing standards for guitar tops back in the late 80s.. He was from Santa Cruz guitars originally, but left there to set up his own wood brokerage services in the mid 90s.
if your getting wood from anyone else, then you ARE working with smoke and mirrors.
I trust Bruces eye for wood. he's about as anal as you could get.

but you could also think of it sorta like Groove Tubes. they invented the tube gradeing system and then everyone was kinda forced to copy it in order to compete.. some did a better job than others of copying.

 

[evolved_insanity]

There are actual guidelines for grading. A grader is supposed to be certified however at most lumber places, this doesnt happen. Mills would definitely have a grader on staff if they are selling to larger wholesalers or retailers. The above mentioned "A - AAA" grading is correct. Anything above that is just a way for people to get more money out of luthiers and furniture builders. The CSLAB (Canadian Standards Lumber Accreditation Board) and ALS (American lumber Standards) are the two major standards used but there are many smaller standards boards that can accredit lumber graders. I have found AAA tops that are marked A and A tops marked AAA so it is definitely in ones eye when grading without being certified.

 

[ihavenofish]

There are actual guidelines for grading. A grader is supposed to be certified however at most lumber places, this doesnt happen. Mills would definitely have a grader on staff if they are selling to larger wholesalers or retailers. The above mentioned "A - AAA" grading is correct. Anything above that is just a way for people to get more money out of luthiers and furniture builders. The CSLAB (Canadian Standards Lumber Accreditation Board) and ALS (American lumber Standards) are the two major standards used but there are many smaller standards boards that can accredit lumber graders. I have found AAA tops that are marked A and A tops marked AAA so it is definitely in ones eye when grading without being certified.

i think it should be noted that the grading of figure is separate from the grading of defects. theres plenty of AAA figured maple thats mostly useless for guitars.

 

[evolved_insanity]

Its sortof seperate. We wouldnt grade something AAA Curly Maple if it has alot of brown colour in it and knots or sugar track even if it has the best curl we have ever seen. That would be downgraded to AA. That being said, alot of places would go ahead and call an all white (no brown at all) a 5A which we all know is hocus pocus.

 

[DRF]

PRS's 10 top or Gibby's 5A or whatever is all over the place-figure wise. I've always had issue with "private stock" used by any builder -what,you mean your holding out with the really good stuff !?. Saved for your private use or intimate good friends?.

 

[gator payne]

there are actually some loose guide lines that should be used and are for most part by tonewood dealers worth their salt. That said out side of figure it gets more vauge. In my opinion grading of spruce and other acoustic soft wood top is more important and realistic than grading figure. Figure is pretty but has nothing much to do with tone.

 

[ExNihilo]

Get what looks cool to you.