Anyone Willing?

[The Ballzz]

Hi Folks,
Trying to find someone capable & willing to rout a guitar for binding. Here's the deal, it's an all mahogany Les Paul Studio, with an ebony fretboard and I want to turn it into a Gold Top. I would be fairly confident with the majority of the job, however the neck/fingerboard will still be attached which would likely (I assume) mean that the portion of the rout/groove near the neck would need to be done with hand tools, freehand. Guitar would come to you already stripped and mostly sanded/prepped for finishing. I will handle the finishing and depending on recommendations, either you could apply the binding, or I could. I'm just not certain which way would be best:
A-Apply binding before the grain fill, sealing and gold and then scrape
OR
B-Mask the groove, spray the gold and then apply binding

I'm kind of figuring "A" is the best approach?

Just looking to bind the front of the body, not the back or the fretboard.
All Thoughts/Comments Appreciated,
Gene

 

[Passfan]

I think I would consider a painted or bare maple bound look like Gibson is doing now with some of their newer Studios. Freehanding a binding channel would be an exercise in futility IMHO. Of course I've seen some of the more talented people on the planet here build a Les Paul with a butter knife and a pair of tweezers so I wont say it's impossible. Good luck

 

[nuance97]

I've done it. Cutting the main part of the channel takes literally seconds, but the bit that you can't route on either side of the fingerboard epically the bit in the cutaway that is actually under the board is a b*tch. Lots of fiddling around to get it right.

 

[The Ballzz]

Understood,
The whole "faux" binding idea would work ok "if" it had a maple top, but this one is all mahogany. As far as free handing, I believe the only places needing any freehand work would be the final inch or less near the bass side of the neck and the couple-ish inches up to and including where the binding would meet the neck on the horn side. I may simply "GROW A PAIR" and tackle it myself using a purfling cutter:

STEWMAC.COM : Ibex Purfling Cutter

or a guide for dremel like this:

STEWMAC.COM : Binding Router Guide

for the main part and then carefully free hand the areas near the neck with sharp chisel(s).
Thanx 4 Reply,
Gene

 

[The Ballzz]

nuance97,
I followed your first guitar build with great interest/enthusiasm and was truly inspired and amazed by the ingenuity demonstrated on getting around obstacles, making your own "devices", etc. You are exactly the guy that I figured would understand my thoughts that this could be totally doable with some patience, diligence and attain to detail along with some nice sharp blades and a couple of "scary sharp" chisels. I would be thrilled if you were willing to share some tips on how you have surmounted the issues that make the ends of the binding such a B!TCH!
Thank You,
Gene

 

[nuance97]

A good friend of mine has a BFG that he sanded all the rough texture of the top smooth, and it was a nice piece of flame maple that really dressed up nice. He wanted to bind the body, but not the neck-exactly what you are wanting to do. We used my binding fixture (the very same one in my build thread) to route the channel which like I mentioned took less than one minute. Luckily he makes reproduction Pennsylvania muzzleloaders so he had a large selection of chisels, and the skills to use them. He did all the hard work of finishing the 1.5-2" of channel on either side of the neck including undercutting the fretboard. I know he screwed with it for hours getting it perfect then glued the binding in the channel with CA. He saved the horn for last so he could cut the binding the proper length and at the perfect angle where it butts up against the neck joint. When it was done it was flawless. Looked like Gibson did it at the factory. It's totally doable, but patience is the key.

As far as tips...I'd avoid that Dremel attachment. Ive heard nothing but bad things about that thing. I know Barnaby has had good luck with that Ibex perfling cutter, but I've never used it. I'm a power tool junkie. I wouldn't attempt it without my binding channel cutter and a good scary sharp 3/16" or 1/8" chisel. The materials to build the fixture would run you $20 or so (ball bearing drawer slides and scrap plywood). The $tewMac binding bit and one 2mm bearing is $100 PLUS about 4 or 5 hours to put the thing together. By the time you built the thing, bought the bit, the binding and a chisel you'd have $150 in it. It may not be worth it if you don't intend on getting into building guitars.

Jeez what a rambling bunch of mess...IDK if I helped at all, but those are my thoughts on the subject...

 

[Barnaby]

Nuance is right in that I've been lucky with the hand tool cutters. I like the gramil from LMI most of all. It gets into the tight curves well and is easy to adjust and control. I saw some purfling cutters on eBay recently for a bit less that would probably do the job, but I can't be sure as to quality.

Of course, if you have the cash, there's this little wonder that '59 Standard told me about, curse him:

I really want one, but there's no way on earth I could ever justify spending so much on a simple tool like this, no matter how special. Still, I have often looked at it and my finger has hovered over the "Buy" button more than can be healthy.

If someone from Lee Valley Tools is reading this, then how about just sending me one as an early birthday present.

 

[The Ballzz]

Nuance & Barnaby,
I thank you very much for your thoughts. While I am also a card carrying, in need of a 12 step program, tool junkie (power and other), I'm not sure that I'm ready to start the new addiction of building guitars. I've already started building a tube amps! , play in a band, do woodworking and build hot rods. When you take all that into account, along with your comments, it brings me back to my original question of whether or not someone may be willing to do this for me? The cost of the tooling alone, plus hours of practice of the skills must vastly outweigh the price of having it done, especially if I do all the stripping & finishing work. Finishing and prep, I'm already set up for. My goal is to have an ebony, non-bound fret boarded, all mahogany Gold Top, with hum buckers and the only one I can actually find is a 1957 for $85,000 and it has binding on the neck, which is not ideal for me. Keep the thoughts comin' and,
Thanx Again,
Gene

 

[Barnaby]

Pity you're not in Tokyo...you could head over and we could do the job here one afternoon.

Good luck - I hope someone there can help. That being said, a normal purfling cutter would cost only about $50 and is probably a useful thing to have for other woodwork or metalwork, as it makes an excellent marking tool.

 

[The Ballzz]

Pity you're not in Tokyo...you could head over and we could do the job here one afternoon.

Good luck - I hope someone there can help. That being said, a normal purfling cutter would cost only about $50 and is probably a useful thing to have for other woodwork or metalwork, as it makes an excellent marking tool.

When you say "a normal purfling cutter," is it one like this:

STEWMAC.COM : Ibex Purfling Cutter

Or do you have a different model/unit/design in mind?
TIA,
Gene

 

[Barnaby]

When you say "a normal purfling cutter," is it one like this:

STEWMAC.COM : Ibex Purfling Cutter

Or do you have a different model/unit/design in mind?
TIA,
Gene

One of these from LMI is what I use...it is great.

 

[The Ballzz]

Barnaby,
Can a unit, such as that Schneider Gramil, be used to make repeated/successive cuts to complete the whole process, as opposed to simply being a "marking" device? It appears so, but I don't like to just assume. I'm a big fan of getting all my ducks in a nice neat row. Them FARGING ducks rarely go willingly along with my plan, because, well, "they're FARGING ducks!" Wood tends to be only marginally more cooperative than ducks!
Thanks,
Gene

 

[Barnaby]

Barnaby,
Can a unit, such as that Schneider Gramil, be used to make repeated/successive cuts to complete the whole process, as opposed to simply being a "marking" device? It appears so, but I don't like to just assume. I'm a big fan of getting all my ducks in a nice neat row. Them FARGING ducks rarely go willingly along with my plan, because, well, "they're FARGING ducks!" Wood tends to be only marginally more cooperative than ducks!
Thanks,
Gene

Hi!

Yes it can, especially in mahogany. There are three tricks to bear in mind:

1) Make sure you use the flat side of the gramil body for most of the work, but the curved side for inside the waists and the horn.

2) When you set the blade, have the flat edge towards the guitar and the angled edge facing away from it.

3) Reset the blade lower gradually from the unit for successively deeper cuts, as this tends to give better control, I find.

Also, once the cut is deep enough (2-3mm) you can easily switch to something like a Stanley knife with a comfortable handle and finish the job if you want to. Just be careful not to apply too much pressure or it will slip out of the cut and scratch the top of your guitar.

 

[The Ballzz]

Thank You sir for your replies at such a late hour, oh, wait, it's only 7:00-ish PM for you! I think I can do this! Even the areas that can't be done with the cutter, if I'm patient and simply take of one flake of sawdust at a time with a chisel, I should be "close enough for Jazz!"
Thanx Again,
Gene

 

[Barnaby]

Thank You sir for your replies at such a late hour, oh, wait, it's only 7:00-ish PM for you! I think I can do this! Even the areas that can't be done with the cutter, if I'm patient and simply take of one flake of sawdust at a time with a chisel, I should be "close enough for Jazz!"
Thanx Again,
Gene

I hope so!

The only thing is that, while I've worked on Gibson Standards and made guitars from scratch, I don't know how severe the roundover on your Studio is. Thus, I don't know if you'd need to cut the groove too deep for standard binding. That's something you might want to get some advice on from someone more experienced.

 

[nuance97]

Thank You sir for your replies at such a late hour, oh, wait, it's only 7:00-ish PM for you! I think I can do this! Even the areas that can't be done with the cutter, if I'm patient and simply take of one flake of sawdust at a time with a chisel, I should be "close enough for Jazz!"
Thanx Again,
Gene

Sounds like you're gonna do it yourself with a gramil, and that is what I'd suggest. Unless you find somebody local you'd be wasting $60-80 on round-trip shipping, and the guitar would spend 1.5to 2weeks in transit for the round-trip. Also I doubt a luthier would do it for free. Just get you a purfling cutter and take your time.

 

[The Ballzz]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS WEBSITE,
And the folks are pretty cool too! Here I came looking to hire someone to do a job and instead some kind, thoughtful fellas have given me enough info to instill enough confidence for me to go ahead and make the mess myself. You guys are the best and I'm sure there ail be a couple more questions once I get started. Heck, I haven't even got the guitar yet. The decision to buy or not was based on whether or not I could do this and/or how expensive it would be. FWIW, the guitar is a white Studio Deluxe with all mahogany body and ebony board. Pickups ???, black hardware. It needs to get here before I make the final decision, as it must feel right and MUST have THAT SOUND!
Thanx Again,
Gene

 

[Barnaby]

I ABSOLUTELY LOVE THIS WEBSITE,
And the folks are pretty cool too! Here I came looking to hire someone to do a job and instead some kind, thoughtful fellas have given me enough info to instill enough confidence for me to go ahead and make the mess myself. You guys are the best and I'm sure there ail be a couple more questions once I get started. Heck, I haven't even got the guitar yet. The decision to buy or not was based on whether or not I could do this and/or how expensive it would be. FWIW, the guitar is a white Studio Deluxe with all mahogany body and ebony board. Pickups ???, black hardware. It needs to get here before I make the final decision, as it must feel right and MUST have THAT SOUND!
Thanx Again,
Gene

Cheers!

Good luck. Is is a new Studio or a bargain secondhand one?

 

[The Ballzz]

Not new, '08 or '09 white Studio, black hardware, all mahogany body, ebony board, kinda roachy with a couple dings on the neck and unknown zebra pups. How much of a bargain is yet to be seen, as it is getting shipped to my local store from another part of the country. When it gets here, I'll determine if it "speaks to me" and how roach it actually is and how hard I can beat them on on price/trade, etc. I have a really nice/gorgeous black 1982 LP Firebrand that I've just never been able to bond with and plan to work on convincing them to take it as an even (or close to it) trade.
Thanks,
Gene