Anyone have the Custom Buckers rewound?

[Ape Factory]

Curious if anyone has ever taken the time to have the CB's rewound to their tastes. I like them well enough except for the fizz when using gain/distortion. The A3 magnets seem to be nice and the single note sustain in the upper neck register is just exceptional.

I swapped in a set of Wizz and they have far better note separation and clarity, the neck pup isn't as boomy with certain amps and they have a nicer grind where the CB's fizz. I "think" I'm detecting less top end though, possibly due to the stronger A4 magnets? I may have to swap the CB's back in this weekend just to verify. I also changed the bridge so I'll need to start at ground zero and isolate components.

I wouldn't do this from a cost-savings standpoint as it's probably minuscule but seriously considering having James at Rewind take a stab at it. If he could increase the note separation for more of that 3D depth and eliminate the fizz, these pups would be winners in my book.

 

[ARandall]

A rewind on a modern pup sounds like a waste of $$ IMO. You would do the rewind if the pickup itself had historical significance.....vintage bobbins/baseplate for example. Maybe just send the pickups to James, get him to play them and describe the bits you don't like about them.
You then get a new pair the way you want them with all the right paf type bobbins/baseplate/steels, and a set of custombuckers to sell off to offset the pickup $$ you just spent.

 

[Ape Factory]

No I agree...was mostly just thinking aloud and trying to figure out exactly what gives the CB's their character. That way I can make a more informed decision on what I want and the specs I want. I didn't know if it would be a simple matter of swapping in a "better" magnet, different spacers, something simple to clean up the fizz.

At this point I am going with a custom set through him. But sending him the CB's is not a bad idea actually!

 

[Dougie]

Rewinding the CBs is not quite pointless but almost. The ONE valuable thing you will take from it, is by carefully unwinding the coils and noting their geometry. Turns per layer, turn count, very unique to Custom Buckers and very different from any other pickups Gibson has made up to this point.

Take the exact CB coil geometry and turn count, add 300 more turns of wire per bobbin, and wind a new bridge pickup. Leave the neck pickup the same geometry and simply wind a new pickup using real genuine 42ga Plain Enamel wire, alnico 3 mags, and the warm '59 style screws James has, NOW you got an AWESOME pair of pickups that have incredible articulation, very transparent, open, airy, well defined upper mids and highs, and a FAT low E string tone not unlike a real PAF.

The best of both worlds, modern and PAF tonal characteristics, living harmoniously in one pickup, with readily available modern materials.

You can thank me later..

 

[Dougie]

The Custom Buckers that I (we) worked with were off a Beano Burst, they were the best sounding pickups that Gibson has made since the original PAFs back in the '57 to '61 years. NO kidding. I was very impressed with them for a factory pickup. I cannot give this kind of praise to any other pickup Gibson has made between the PAFs and the Custom Buckers and I have heard a shitload of them.

The Custom Buckers have their own sound, very defined, really vocal in the upper mids and highs, very articulate, I freakin' LOVE their sound. The neck pickup is perfect as is, the bridge I found that I loved the sound of it but it didn't drive the amp. It just felt like it was on 7 1/2 or 8 and just didn't have any punch at all, couldn't coax any real cool dynamics out of it unless you ran it through pedals.

My recipe in the post above, totally brought out what the bridge CB was missing, totally gave it the qualities it was lacking, and basically kept the same tonal coloration and openness. The pickup I wound using the CB coil geometry and adding 300 turns to it is one of my favorite pickups that I have ever used.

I think there are a number of different Custom Buckers, wound with different turns of wire than the ones from the Beano Burst, so I cannot speak for ALL the Custom Buckers as I haven't tried very many of them, this has been my own experience with the Beano Burst pickups.

 

[fretboarder]

I can never understand a rewind. surely if you rewind a pickup its destroyed forever??

 

[Ape Factory]

The Custom Buckers that I (we) worked with were off a Beano Burst, they were the best sounding pickups that Gibson has made since the original PAFs back in the '57 to '61 years. NO kidding. I was very impressed with them for a factory pickup. I cannot give this kind of praise to any other pickup Gibson has made between the PAFs and the Custom Buckers and I have heard a shitload of them.

The Custom Buckers have their own sound, very defined, really vocal in the upper mids and highs, very articulate, I freakin' LOVE their sound. The neck pickup is perfect as is, the bridge I found that I loved the sound of it but it didn't drive the amp. It just felt like it was on 7 1/2 or 8 and just didn't have any punch at all, couldn't coax any real cool dynamics out of it unless you ran it through pedals.

My recipe in the post above, totally brought out what the bridge CB was missing, totally gave it the qualities it was lacking, and basically kept the same tonal coloration and openness. The pickup I wound using the CB coil geometry and adding 300 turns to it is one of my favorite pickups that I have ever used.

I think there are a number of different Custom Buckers, wound with different turns of wire than the ones from the Beano Burst, so I cannot speak for ALL the Custom Buckers as I haven't tried very many of them, this has been my own experience with the Beano Burst pickups.

Good info, now we're getting somewhere!!!

So what I don't like about my CB's is they're fizzy and they loose some of that note separation I have on all of my Rewind (and PRS) pickups. The "middle" strings just seem to disappear. And the voice of the pickups is different. I'm not sure I like or dislike it but I'm not hooked.

What I am hooked on is the single note sustain. I've since swapped in a set of standard Wizz (A4 magnets) and they're decent. But I do think I lost a bit of top end sustain.

I've been going back and forth with James on what to do and I just can't make up my mind. I have his low outputs, very low outputs, and the JP Pre's. Love them all and my perfect recipe would be a fatter, bolder low output with that pickup's voice and warm growl turned up a notch. I might be happy with the medium or even high output PAF's. I've even thought about going with the JP Post 72's. At this point I fully admit it, I'm lost. Just don't know which direction to turn.

I spent some time last weekend going back and forth between the stock CB's and the Wizz, with a Callaham bridge thrown in there. I must have swapped the pickups four times just to make sure I was hearing things right. I will say the stock CB's improved with the Callaham but I went back to the stock bridge with the Wizz. Weird. In the end, I installed a new harness (pots, caps) and the Wizz and was pretty happy. The Wizz seem to grind more, not so much a growl but don't fizz out like the CB's. For the record I used the CB's with the stock harness and caps only.

What exactly does adding 300 turns to the bridge do? A bit more punch? Darken the sound?

Interesting information!

 

[korus]

What exactly does adding 300 turns to the bridge do? A bit more punch? Darken the sound?

Note that Dougie wrote : "add 300 more turns of wire per bobbin", which means 600 turns in total - that is 0.4-0.5k greater DCR. Yes, it should make a bit darker and with a bit higher output.

Also note that prior to rewinding oils, you can try some other Alnico type magnet (A4) in bridge first - with the stock coils. Fully charged A4, A2, UOA5, short A5 will have greater punch and less fizz than A3, but it will also alter EQ of the pickup. Just try that first. It's not expensive and it's not hard to change a magnet in a humbucker.

 

[Ape Factory]

Thanks for the input kourus. I've pulled and flipped magnets in humbuckers before but not replaced so I could probably do that fairly easily. So you feel the fizz is a result of the A3's? I have a set of Rewind VLO's that I believe are A3's, I didn't a/b them against the CB's as they're in a semi-hollow. I'll have to pull the guitar out and play through a few higher gain amps.

 

[ARandall]

See if James can wind you a set of his PAF1's. Not sure how many he has done, but it was the wind he sent off to the Canadian PAF shootout (and won with).

 

[DADGAD]

I have a Custom set of James PAF-1's, on loan from Drakezero, and they are awesome. I put a Duncan Antiquity bridge in with a Throbak A2 in it and they are sonically very, very similar. I think Kudos to James on his winning formula as the Antiquity is one of Seymour's flagship models.

 

[Ape Factory]

See if James can wind you a set of his PAF1's. Not sure how many he has done, but it was the wind he sent off to the Canadian PAF shootout (and won with).

Yep I already own a set of his low outputs (I think that's what was referred to as the PAF-1), very low outputs, and JP Pre 72's. I'm a big fan of his work. I've also owned Creme Brulee's in the past. I've got the low outputs in my Corsa, the JP's in a PRS SC-58 and the VLO's in an Eastman T486.

I think I'm leaning towards another set of low outputs and having him send a few magnets along to swap in and out. Not sure if I should ask for a few more winds on it or not otherwise I'd probably be better off ordering the medium or high output PAF.

 

[Dougie]

Why not hit Bill Megela up at Electric City Pickups and ask him for one of the bridge Custom Buckers with 300 more turns per coil as I described?

The pickup isn't really darker, it picks up a nice hefty low E string like a good PAF should have, and it has all the attributes of the Custom Bucker on top of that because it copies the coil geometry of the Custom Bucker. It's a Custom Bucker LEAD model if you will, and it wh00ps ass. And it has exactly enough punch to drive the front end of a plexi clone nicely with only the guitar, which is what the original Custom Bucker fell short on in the bridge position.

Edit: Another thing that I didn't copy, and I am not sure when Gibson started using 414 stainless for pole screws and slugs, but they use that in the CC #29 "Appraisal Burst" reissue's pickups. The Custom Bucker I wound has low carbon 1215 slugs, and some of James' warmer 1959 style pole screws, no stainless in it anywhere. You may discover that some of that "fizzy" high end goes away if you swap the pole screws. If you get a Custom Bucker LEAD model from Bill like I am suggesting, it won't have stainless in it either.

 

[Ape Factory]

Who rewound your CB, Electric City or James at Rewind?

Also I did pull out the Eastman with the Rewind VLO's, A3 mags, no fizz. One thing I did not do was try the stock Custom Buckers with the new pots and caps. But I can't imagine they'd remove the fizz when using gain.

I'll email James and see if he'll do the rewind the way you described.

 

[bill m]

I've had many custom buckers and sacrificed a few to science and shared my results with Dougie. paf's never used stainless steel for anything. 1215 slugs and paf alloy pole screws will make them sound much better. Also, as Dougie stated, you can add an addiditional 300 turns to each bobbin on the bridge to make it a bit hotter and fatter sounding.

 

[DADGAD]

I've had a few sets of Custom buckers and they definitely have their own character. For the most part very good. In their marketing descriptions, Gibson should be adding "inspired by".

 

[Ape Factory]

I've had many custom buckers and sacrificed a few to science and shared my results with Dougie. paf's never used stainless steel for anything. 1215 slugs and paf alloy pole screws will make them sound much better. Also, as Dougie stated, you can add an addiditional 300 turns to each bobbin on the bridge to make it a bit hotter and fatter sounding.

Thanks Bill! Much appreciated.

 

[winexprt]

Such great info in this thread. I love the Custombuckers in my R8 and I'm always trying to find more info on them.

Does anyone know if the CB's in my early '13 R8 would have the stainless steel pole screws and slugs? Or was that used only in the CC# 29?

 

[Ape Factory]

Well a nice shout out to Bill @ Electric City as well as Dougie who pointed me in the right direction. While waiting on my Rewinds, I sent my pickups to Bill knowing that as they were stock, I'd never use them again.

What I got back amplified everything I DID like about the CB's, mainly the single note thickness, tone and sustain. These are now getting me closer to Joe B's sound than I've ever gotten before. Too bad I can't play like him! I did actually like the edge of breakup and clean sound of the CB's but with gain, I couldn't stand them. Thanks to Bill's mods, that's now changed.

Almost all of the fizz is gone, the note separation is worlds better and both pups are very usable. Some killer middle position tones too. I'm sure they're not 100% as good as a premium boutique pickup in that regard ( I have a few to compare them to) but I like them a whole lot better than a set of Wizz A4's I had in the same guitar.

The guitar is sort of an anvil, really thick top end with a ton of sustain and these pups really emphasize that. The cost was very reasonable and the turn-around was excellent too. So if you're not willing to spend north of $200 (or a lot more) on a set of boutiques, this is a viable alternative at a fraction of the cost.

 

[Dougie]

Told you so! I already knew how they would sound! Glad you like them!

^5s bill_m