Anyone have any idea what the anline dye did in my finish?

[bierce85]

Hey guys, I've been working on an LP refinish for about the past month. I decided to try to go as vintage correct as possible so after stripping to bare wood I applied what I've read is the 50s correct grain filler: Pumice mixed with boiled linseed oil/aniline dye dissolved in alcohol as well as some nitro. The grain filling went well but left a bit of an uneven look so I sprayed some more red aniline (dissolved in 75/25 alcohol acetone and mixed with nitro as per LMI's instructions) as a toner to even it out. After spraying the toner it looked perfect.

Next, I sprayed a few coats of sanding sealer over the whole back and sides and this is where things started to go sideways. Coming back the next day I noticed a few spots where it seemed like the dye had just disappeared. It looked like a sand-through but the guitar hadn't been sanded. I proceeded to lightly sand the sealer coats, being super careful to not even come close to sanding through into the color. While sanding, I do notice some red on the sandpaper even when just wipe sanding it which indicates the guitar seems to be "rejecting" the dye back up through the topcoats.

Next came the clear coats, and now its turning into a full blown disaster. After spraying the clear coats and letting it dry it looks like about half of the dye is just inexplicably gone in a random pattern across the back.

So that's where I'm at right now. I'm hoping that some UV rays may possibly even the whole thing out but its looking like this may need to be stripped and brought back to square one. The problem is, I really have no idea what happened. I know some degree of aniline dye migrating out of the finish is normal as you see in areas where gibsons have been handled or agitated, but I have no idea why its all coming out immediately while doing the finish. Pics in order are: grain filled, toner applied, sanding sealer applied and the last two are after sanding back the sealer and applying three clear coats. Any thoughts?

 

[pshupe]

I usually do a sealer coat of nitro before pore filling. I have found that without the sealer coat first. The dye in the pore filler was very splotchy and any small glue squeeze out was magnified. Doing the sealer coat first completely eliminated the issue. This is probably not what you wanted to hear. Hopefully there are some other suggestions for a fix.

Cheers Peter.

 

[bierce85]

I usually do a sealer coat of nitro before pore filling. I have found that without the sealer coat first. The dye in the pore filler was very splotchy and any small glue squeeze out was magnified. Doing the sealer coat first completely eliminated the issue. This is probably not what you wanted to hear. Hopefully there are some other suggestions for a fix.

Cheers Peter.

Thanks peter. I usually spray a sealer coat before grain filling as well but this time I was trying to go "vintage correct" and use the pore filler as a combination stain/filler which requires applying it to the bare wood. I still dont get why this seems to work for other people but didn't work for me.

 

[bierce85]

Welp, here goes nothing...

 

[pshupe]

Thanks peter. I usually spray a sealer coat before grain filling as well but this time I was trying to go "vintage correct" and use the pore filler as a combination stain/filler which requires applying it to the bare wood. I still dont get why this seems to work for other people but didn't work for me.

I think it is vintage correct. I know some replica builders that do just that. I am not 100% sure so it would be nice if someone could confirm. pls??

Cheers Peter.

 

[ARandall]

^ If you do sealer first, you cannot get the tint/colour in the filler onto anywhere but the pores, which is incorrect for vintage Les Paul builds.
An example of 'finish coat first' type Gibson finish is the TV yellow. Of course there is a wash coat effect in that coat, but you only actually see the chocolate brown filler colour in the pores.

I've never gone so far with a vintage build to try and do filler with the same formulation. I just tend to use a modern product of the same oil base as vintage (mine is Pore-o-pac from Behlen). But having said that, the times I have done a fairly strong colour tint to the filler it has seemed to wash out a bit by the time I have sprayed sealer then clear on top. Its like you have to colour it twice as much as necessary just to get it to be where I want at the end.

But mine is never blotchy like yours.....its an even absorption of tint. Maybe you have some areas where there is still some filler residue on the surface, so this is what is causing the uneven colour effect.