Any suggestions on how to get more treble out of a 57 champ reissue amp?

[zdoggie]

hope the tube swap works its an easy fix.

zdog

 

[Ted Pikul]

I would recommend a speaker swap to an Eminence Alessandro, but I think you need an 8", and I don't think there's an Alessandro 8"

One of those really warmed up my 12" Champ clone.

 

[Mark1406]

If you are after more treble from your Champ, one way of doing it is to add a presence control into the feedback loop of the amp.

Another way is to add bright caps across the volume control.

Personally, I think the Tweed Princeton with the tone control is a better bet than a Champ, and you can up the gain of both amps and retain the negative feedback loop if you want to. The Princeton can take a larger speaker too.

The Princeton has the real estate to add an extra valve for additional gain too.

Just a few thoughts.

Regards

Mark

 

[rich85]

Personally I would try EHX 12ax7 instead of the stock 12au7 and if that doesn’t give some extra treble sell it. A stock USA Tweed Fender is easy to sell or swap. The Tweed 5e3 Deluxe is probably what you are after if you want that Tweed sound. The Champ either works or doesn’t for each player, really not much to tweak.

 

[kelsodeez]

A little update on this thread:
I put the amp up for sale but haven't gotten too much interest on it so I've resolved to tweak and massage it until it gives me the right tone.

I came across an old video of a guy doing an a/b comparison of an original vintage 57 champ and the reissue. The original sounded sooo much better. I sent the video to a well respected amp technician in my area named Skip Simmons to show him my expectation of tone vs how it actually sounds.

He suggested that I get a 1x12 4ohm cabinet and connect it to get the sound I'm looking for playing a humbucker guitar through a tweed amp, but before I go spending $200+ on building a cab, I am going to pick up an mxr 10 band graphical EQ pedal to see if I can get some better, more shimmery tones out of it.

If the EQ pedal doesn't work, what speakers would you guys recommend? I have my eye on the weber 12a125a alnico in 4ohm with an open back enclosure

 

[wildhawk1]

If you like the Champ format then seriously look at picking up a Super Champ X2 and leaving your's unmolested.

They're about $250 used. Think of it as a beefed up and modded version of what you currently have with a lot more tonal options. The first channel gets rave review from many including me regarding capturing that magic Fender goodness.

I own three and use them to put a LP , Tele, and 335 through at gigs and church with great results.

 

[dc007]

If you like the Champ format then seriously look at picking up a Super Champ X2 and leaving your's unmolested.

They're about $250 used. Think of it as a beefed up and modded version of what you currently have with a lot more tonal options. The first channel gets rave review from many including me regarding capturing that magic Fender goodness.

I own three and use them to put a LP , Tele, and 335 through at gigs and church with great results.

View attachment 587360

Plus 1 on the XD. I love mine. Of course on the tweed champ, I happen to like that throaty tone but they aren't for everyone

 

[kelsodeez]

Plus 1 on the XD. I love mine. Of course on the tweed champ, I happen to like that throaty tone but they aren't for everyone

I love that throaty breakup sounds at higher volumes but it almost sounds like a fuzz channel with a les paul plugged in and cranked up. I am going more for that shimmery high gain sound, or as close as I can get to it

 

[dc007]

I love that throaty breakup sounds at higher volumes but it almost sounds like a fuzz channel with a les paul plugged in and cranked up. I am going more for that shimmery high gain sound, or as close as I can get to it

I may be wrong but in my experience a shimmering sound ain't gonna come from a tweed Champ with a Lester. You may want to go for a tweed deluxe or bandmaster........ MHO

 

[MyLesPaul462]

Sounds like you want a differently voiced amp. If your not getting satisfied by adding a pedal that has a treble knob, or a tone knob. Then you might want to go with a different amp. I have a champ and play a 50's standard Paul with it, adding light gain, then tweaking the eq (again via an EQ stack, or tone knob) should sharpen things up for you. What you land on if you do it right is...surprise, surprise, a vintage Marshall tone. Pickups matter here. With low output humbuckers through a champ, you'll get shimmering cleans up to about 6, and that's being generous.

I'm with you, after 6 on the dial, it's not a pleasant breakup character, to me at least. I'd suggest a vintage Marshall like JTM or JMP (yes these cleanup with a turn of the dial). I say this since you said you wanted to have a gainier sound.

 

[wildhawk1]

I may be wrong but in my experience a shimmering sound ain't gonna come from a tweed Champ with a Lester. You may want to go for a tweed deluxe or bandmaster........ MHO

....or a Strat.

 

[dc007]

....or a Strat.

OP says he likes the amp with his Strat

 

[kelsodeez]

OP says he likes the amp with his Strat

Yeah, with the tele, it's amazing sounding (funny enough the tele sounds too ice picky on the marshall) sounds good on the strat and sounds like dogshit on the les paul. I just wanna gain some ground on the treble because it's way too biased towards mellowing out harsh sounding guitars

 

[Dilver]

another thing to try in addition to the 12ax7 is to stick a Wampler Tumnus in front of it and adjust the tone knob to taste.

 

[cybermgk]

Frankly, as some have pointed out, I think it just might be time to get a new amp.

Going by that video you posted, of the vintage and the RI, if that is how your Amp sounds, then imho that is a major part due to the stock speaker.. Which is likely why your amp Tech friend suggested using an expansion cab with it. That's a no mod way to change the speaker.

Personally, I think I might try a speaker swap for a different 8" something like

https://wgsusa.com/g8a
or
https://wgsusa.com/8-g8c-20-watts

Though listening to the sound examples on both, for your amp, it SEEMS to me the Ceramic version might be better.

Sounds like you wanted something easy to take around, as for busking. Carrying a 2nd cab for that?

And I also think a Timmy and use the Bass cut. That is if it's a V2 or earlier Timmy, or the MXR mini version.

 

[ErictheRed]

I don't know why you wouldn't try an extension cabinet. It might cost a little money, but it's not being spent on a mod to an amp, it's an additional piece of gear that you can use with multiple other amps. If you buy a used one you can turn around and sell it for the same price that you bought it for if it doesn't work out how you want.

I also stand by my earlier suggestion of a transparent overdrive or boost pedal that cuts the bass and adds some high end.

 

[ReWind James]

Boosting frequencies with an EQ into a piece of gear that isn't capable of reproducing those frequencies is only going to increase noise.

Similarly, boosting frequencies that a guitar isn't putting out into any amp is only going to increase noise.

 

[kelsodeez]

I picked up a mxr ten band eq yesterday and it has gotten much much closer to the tone I'm looking for. Not too noisy at all. The settings on my eq are pretty dramatic tho. A touch of reverb as well and it is sounding pretty good. I am still going to try and put together a 12" cab for it, but for the time being, the tone I'm getting out of it is acceptable for bedroom noodling. So much for the pursuit of simplicity haha

 

[MyLesPaul462]

A little update on this thread:
I put the amp up for sale but haven't gotten too much interest on it so I've resolved to tweak and massage it until it gives me the right tone.

I came across an old video of a guy doing an a/b comparison of an original vintage 57 champ and the reissue. The original sounded sooo much better. I sent the video to a well respected amp technician in my area named Skip Simmons to show him my expectation of tone vs how it actually sounds.

He suggested that I get a 1x12 4ohm cabinet and connect it to get the sound I'm looking for playing a humbucker guitar through a tweed amp, but before I go spending $200+ on building a cab, I am going to pick up an mxr 10 band graphical EQ pedal to see if I can get some better, more shimmery tones out of it.

If the EQ pedal doesn't work, what speakers would you guys recommend? I have my eye on the weber 12a125a alnico in 4ohm with an open back enclosure

Let us know if the EQ pedal works for you. Or the easy mod of swapping the 12AY7 for a 12AX7. I also hear the difference between the reissue breakup vs authentic originals. If fender really strove to meticulously recreate the circuit for the reissues...is it break in time for the speaker? the missing 12AX7? hmm Keep us posted. Preferably with a audio recording of your progress.

 

[zeneffect]

Skip Simmons is well regarded, he should be able to sort you out.