Any suggestions on how to get more treble out of a 57 champ reissue amp?

[kelsodeez]

I bought my amp new in July. I've really tried to love it. I really have. When I plug my strat into it, the tone is amazing.

The only problem is that I don't play my strat as much as my LP. When I plug my les paul into it, the lows are so heavy, it sounds like I'm playing through a wet cardboard box.

I've given it ample play time to break in and bloom and it just hasn't developed into a tone that suits my ears.

I am looking for a higher, chimey, bell like tone that I get from my marshall, but in a smaller package.

So, how can I get my champ closer to the tone I'm looking for? Should I be looking into tube replacements? New speaker?

 

[CB91710]

It is what it is.
It was designed to work with the guitars that Leo was building.
Marshall may have "copied" the Bassman, but if you look at the circuits, there are differences between the Fender tweeds and the Marshall.... and even between the comparable Gibson GA-5 amp.

I'd run through an EQ and reshape the tone with that, then you're not messing with the amp's design.
Tube and speaker replacements aren't going to give you the "Fender Sparkle" out of a Les Paul.
Les Pauls are DARK when run on the same amp settings as a Strat.... conversely, set up an amp for a good sound on a Lester, and a Strat will be an ice pick.

Tubes? 12AX7, 12AT7, and 12AU7 are your options... all have a different gain curve, but none are going to impact the tone, only the point at which you get breakup.
12AX7 is the hottest and will drive the amp the hardest.

 

[NotScott]

As for tubes, if you are using recent JJ preamp tubes, they are a rather dark tube to begin with. I prefer NOS tubes myself, particularly GE 5 Stars in Tweed circuits but if you can't find those, I hear the new Tung-Sol preamp tubes are a bit brighter than JJs.

I am not exactly sure what circuit the recent Fender Super Champ is designed off of but if you are good with a soldering iron, can read a schematic and know how to work safely inside an amp, here are a couple easy mods that will add highs and cut lows:

1) The input jacks should have a 1M resistor across the inputs and (1) 68K resistor in series with each jack. Lower the value of the 68Ks to 22K and you will get more highs and a touch more gain.

2) There should be a .02 uF coupling cap that is used to connect the preamp to the power amp. Lower it to a 10 or 1 nF cap to cut out some of the flub on the bottom.

Other than the above, it is what it is and if you need anything further, you have the wrong amp for your application.

 

[CB91710]

Here's the 5E1 and 5F1
5E1 has a filter choke, but runs the 6V6 as a triode.
5F1 drops the screen voltage through a 10k resistor.

I would imagine the 57 Custom Champ is using the 5F1 circuit.

 

[LuthierVandross]

Have you tried swapping your pickups?

 

[Mustard Caps]

Agree about the pickups.

My Tom Holmes pickups scare the crap out of my 65-66 Strat pickups, and my 4 bolt 71 Strat, when it comes to chime, and harmonic content. Aint nothing dark about these pickups. Some of the cleans, most clear, and harmonically rich pickups Ive heard. I can run the tone contros on zero, and get no mud.
I can see where many say some Les Pauls sound like a Tele on steroids is true. My buddy who has a 1 owner 61 Les Paul/SG shape calls my guitar the Harp Guitar.
I also have an .015 cap in the neck, and an .022 in the Bridge positions. My pots were also been measured before they were put in, and are 500k for the Tone, and 550k for the Volume controls.

 

[palmerfralick]

when the possible fix involves swapping out components or pickups I'm afraid it's most likely time to move on to something else. Or just use it with your Strat. The Marshall One Watt series might be a good start

 

[jbash]

Tweed and humbuckers don't always go together so well. Bassmans yes, Tweed Twins yes. But the smaller amps,- Deluxe, Champs, etc I never have liked with Gibsons. Browns, Blondes and beyond are a different story.

BUT, I would try a simple EQ pedal out front first. Cheap and easy.

Going to a new speaker might help, but then what would happen with your Strat? It's a vicious cycle,

I personally wouldn't get crazy modding the hell out of the rest of my setup to make it work with the amp. I'd find an amp/speaker combo that works with both setups.

 

[Tone Man Guitar]

Try making some minor changes in pickup height. One of the biggest improvements you can make to a guitar is pickup height adjustment. Measure before you change that way you can take them back to the original height if you don't like the outcome.

 

[MrTambourineMan]

I bought my 57 custom champ new in July. I've really tried to love it. I really have. When I plug my strat into it, the tone is amazing.

The only problem is that I hate playing my strat. When I plug my les paul into it, the lows are so heavy, it sounds like I'm playing through a wet cardboard box.

I've given it ample play time to break in and bloom and it just hasn't developed into a tone that suits my ears.

I am looking for a higher, chimey, bell like tone that I get from my marshall, but in a smaller package.

So, how can I get my champ closer to the tone I'm looking for? Should I be looking into tube replacements? New speaker?

Are you using a EQ pedal?

 

[kelsodeez]

Have you tried swapping your pickups?

No because they sound amazing through my marshall stack as well as modeling amps. I just love the vibe of the Champ. Small, loud, easy to transport and it looks cool. I won't cut my r9's balls off because it banged a dog

when the possible fix involves swapping out components or pickups I'm afraid it's most likely time to move on to something else. Or just use it with your Strat. The Marshall One Watt series might be a good start

I agree. I think I'm going to either try out a dsl5cr or just go the boss katana for bedroom jamming and busking

Tweed and humbuckers don't always go together so well. Bassmans yes, Tweed Twins yes. But the smaller amps,- Deluxe, Champs, etc I never have liked with Gibsons. Browns, Blondes and beyond are a different story.

BUT, I would try a simple EQ pedal out front first. Cheap and easy.

Going to a new speaker might help, but then what would happen with your Strat? It's a vicious cycle,

I personally wouldn't get crazy modding the hell out of the rest of my setup to make it work with the amp. I'd find an amp/speaker combo that works with both setups.

Yeah I agree. I should've known when every damn play demo on YouTube is done with a telecaster haha

Are you using a EQ pedal?

I did try out my boss me50 multi effect pedal and equalized it through that to boost the muds mids and treble, but every time I use the boss, I get an inconsistent tone out of it. One day it'll sound amazing and other days it goes back to the brown box sound.

 

[kelsodeez]

Thank you for everyone's help. I think I'm going to hold off on modding it for now and I'll just use it when I need to do a David gilmour impression on the guitar

 

[MrTambourineMan]

No because they sound amazing through my marshall stack as well as modeling amps. I just love the vibe of the Champ. Small, loud, easy to transport and it looks cool. I won't cut my r9's balls off because it banged a dog

I agree. I think I'm going to either try out a dsl5cr or just go the boss katana for bedroom jamming and busking

Yeah I agree. I should've known when every damn play demo on YouTube is done with a telecaster haha


I did try out my boss me50 multi effect pedal and equalized it through that to boost the muds mids and treble, but every time I use the boss, I get an inconsistent tone out of it. One day it'll sound amazing and other days it goes back to the brown box sound.

I'm not a huge fan of BOSS multi pedals when it comes to EQing...it's tough to sound shape. However I would say, before you go down the swapping speakers, pick ups, nuts, tailpieces, wormhole, try just a straight up, single 6 band and see if that helps. I like the old MXR blue case but if you're feeling extra frisky the Chass Bliss is the one.

 

[ErictheRed]

You could use a simple overdrive or clean boost type of pedal to cut the bass. Usually the problem is the low end being too much, too boomy, too flubby, and not that you actually need more treble. Almost any of the "transparent" type overdrive or boost circuits will work well for this.

 

[kelsodeez]

You could use a simple overdrive or clean boost type of pedal to cut the bass. Usually the problem is the low end being too much, too boomy, too flubby, and not that you actually need more treble. Almost any of the "transparent" type overdrive or boost circuits will work well for this.

I tried a klon clone pedal (I know, not the best for dialing in the tone) but it was just too noisy at idle. Otherwise it had a nice raspy tone to it, but still wasn't exactly what I wanted

 

[Duane_the_tub]

This is the pedal you want with that amp.

 

[Dilver]

I have this amp. Love it. Swap out the 12AY7 for a good 12AX7 and it will brighten up some. It will break up sooner, but the tone is betterr. I don’t know why they spec‘d a 12ay7 for the preamp tube for this amp. Before anyone jumps on me and says “it’s the original spec!”, I know. But I think the Tweed Champ tones that we all know and love were actually with a 12ax7 as they only used 12AY7s for a little while before they switched to 12AX7s and all the black face and silver face Champs use 12AX7s. I’m running used 50s and 60s RCA 12AX7s in V1 for most of my amps And I do think they sound better and are more reliable than anything being produced today..

The stock speaker is made by Weber and it’s well matched for this amp. Just make sure you do play through it loudly enough to break in the speaker. Also, if you’ve got this amp on the floor, get it off the ground. If the amp is ear level, it will sound clearer. The small speaker just can’t move that much air.

 

[rich85]

Go and try the new 68 Vibro Champ. I love the Tweed champ but honestly that new 68 is just insanely good.

 

[jwalker99]

Try an eq pedal and push the treble frequency , 4k .

the 68 vibrio champ is a good amp too. But the tweed champ is lovely. Note most pro players will say set your Teee champ at 3 and no higher and mic it or use a OX, cab+, etc

 

[LeonC]

You cannot make a lion out of a duckling. You're single-ended champ and a Marshall push-pull amp (I'm assuming your Marshall has at least two power tubes) are vastly different beasts and there is absolutely no relationship between Fender and Marshall with respect to these two models. There are no simple changes that you can make to that Champ to get it to sound anything like your Marshall.

You need to look for a different amp or perhaps consider using a good attenuator or reamp for low volume playing. My 2 cents, FWIW.