Angle or not to angle pickup cavities?

[Jure]

I have come to the point where I have to decide how to rout pickup cavities on my first LP build. Some plans have pickup cavities drawn at an angle and others don't. And similarly some of you make pickup cavities at an angle and others don't. Which method would you recommend and why? Thanx.

 

[monsterwalley]

I feel stupid, should have read the op better. I thought you were talking about the control cavity angled route.
Sorry.......

 

[Barnaby]

I'm trying to do the angle on my current build, but, as I am working by hand, I don't know how it will go. The reason I'm doing it is simply because it's what the plans say and I don't want the guitar to look strange.

OK...any stranger than it is going to already.

If you're going for a 'vintage-style' LP, then I'd say it's worth doing the cavities on an angle. If not, then I don't see that you should have to...and it's probably easier not to.

 

[ptate]

It's simple to do once you have your neck angle cut.

Just run your router base template off that and add wedges...!!

 

[shorty85]

Sorry for digging up an older thread , but I was searching for an answer on pickup cavity angles and this thread came the closest.

Is the anybody here who has actually routed their pickup cavities on a LP without following the neck angle? Were there any issues?

I understand that for most people, routing at the same time as the neck pocket is easier and less time consuming, which is why you do it that way. But, I don't believe that my router bit would be able to reach to the lowest depth of the cavity if I were to use the same template as my neck pocket.

To be specific on the bit, I am using a 1/2" bearing/template bit with a 1' long cutting shaft.

What I am considering is to mount a template flush with my pickup plane and route from there. Would I have any mounting issues if my pickup cavities were routed at the same angle as the pickup plane? My pickup plane was cut at 1.8 degrees.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[gator payne]

Simply stated; with the amount of clearance tolerance provided in the typical pup cavity it makes pretty much no whoop if the cavity is tilted or not.

Seriously?!?! If this is one of those things that if you are really worrying about this then you are in serious need to visit your mental health specialist. Just poking at you!

 

[shorty85]

Seriously?!?! If this is one of those things that if you are really worrying about this then you are in serious need to visit your mental health specialist. Just poking at you!

Thanks very much for the fast reply!

And no, I actually have much bigger fears than this.

Luckily for me, most of my questions have been answered in the dozens of build thread that I continuously read through on this forum.

This is my first ever build, and I'm building two at once.

Just last night I had an issue with attempting to laminate three pieces of Mahogany together to make a three piece neck. I was using Titebond 2. What happened to me was, while I was clamping (a few clamps already on) one of the boards started to shift pretty drastically on me. I tried to slide it back into place, but it was too late, the glue was already starting to set.

Lucky me, I had to pry them all apart and try to clean off most of the glue with warm water. I left them to set over night. After work today I'm going to sand them down and bit and try again. Maybe this time I'll drill in a screw at both ends of the board to keep them aligned.

Wish me luck.

Also, I've been considering making it a build thread, but I'm a little nervous about making a build thread for two guitars that could possibly end in a total embarrassing disaster.

 

[gator payne]

Thanks very much for the fast reply!

And no, I actually have much bigger fears than this.

Luckily for me, most of my questions have been answered in the dozens of build thread that I continuously read through on this forum.

This is my first ever build, and I'm building two at once.

Just last night I had an issue with attempting to laminate three pieces of Mahogany together to make a three piece neck. I was using Titebond 2. What happened to me was, while I was clamping (a few clamps already on) one of the boards started to shift pretty drastically on me. I tried to slide it back into place, but it was too late, the glue was already starting to set.

Lucky me, I had to pry them all apart and try to clean off most of the glue with warm water. I left them to set over night. After work today I'm going to sand them down and bit and try again. Maybe this time I'll drill in a screw at both ends of the board to keep them aligned.

Wish me luck.

Also, I've been considering making it a build thread, but I'm a little nervous about making a build thread for two guitars that could possibly end in a total embarrassing disaster.

Let me suggest a change in glues that will help with the creep issue. GNorlan Get some High Tack Fish Glue and give it a try. I hardly ever use anything but Fish glue anymore. Mike Collings turned me on to Norlan Fish Glue some 10 years ago. While I was falmilure with fish glue prior to that, I had only used in in some leather belt fabrication and at a much lower visccosity. You get most of the benifits of HHG but without the heat and with a very long open time. I use fish glue and or HHG almost exclusivly in my lutherie now for 10 years.

Here is a link

https://www.norlandprod.com/Fishdefault.html

 

[shorty85]

Let me suggest a change in glues that will help with the creep issue. GNorlan Get some High Tack Fish Glue and give it a try. I hardly ever use anything but Fish glue anymore. Mike Collings turned me on to Norlan Fish Glue some 10 years ago. While I was falmilure with fish glue prior to that, I had only used in in some leather belt fabrication and at a much lower visccosity. You get most of the benifits of HHG but without the heat and with a very long open time. I use fish glue and or HHG almost exclusivly in my lutherie now for 10 years.

Here is a link

https://www.norlandprod.com/Fishdefault.html

Thanks for that tip. I think I will give it a shot.

I did some searching and it looks as though the only place near me that has High Tack Fish Glue is Lee Valley. I'm driving into Ottawa tomorrow for a Hockey game, so if I have time, I may stop in and buy some. I would buy the Norland, but I can't find an Ontario dealer.

High Tack Fish Glue - Lee Valley Tools

Thanks again.

 

[gator payne]

Thanks for that tip. I think I will give it a shot.

I did some searching and it looks as though the only place near me that has High Tack Fish Glue is Lee Valley. I'm driving into Ottawa tomorrow for a Hockey game, so if I have time, I may stop in and buy some. I would buy the Norland, but I can't find an Ontario dealer.

High Tack Fish Glue - Lee Valley Tools

Thanks again.

Just looking at the color it might be a bit thinner cut than the Norlan and that would make sence at the price difference of Norlan vs Lee Valley. I would not be surprized if Lee Valley did not buy Norlan by the bulk and repackage at a slightly lighter cut. the main thing that the lighter cut will mean is it is easier to spread thinner and a bit more open time because of the added water percentage

Just in case you did not know. Norlan ships direct to you.

 

[silverkw]

Just looking at the color it might be a bit thinner cut than the Norlan and that would make sence at the price difference of Norlan vs Lee Valley. I would not be surprized if Lee Valley did not buy Norlan by the bulk and repackage at a slightly lighter cut. the main thing that the lighter cut will mean is it is easier to spread thinner and a bit more open time because of the added water percentage

Just in case you did not know. Norlan ships direct to you.

Gator, does fish glue have some sort of expiration period like yellow wood glue (HHG can be stored for long as solid flakes I believe)?

 

[gator payne]

Gator, does fish glue have some sort of expiration period like yellow wood glue (HHG can be stored for long as solid flakes I believe)?

I am going to answer but at the same time challenge you by tickling the neurons in charge of your thought process a tad

Fish glue like Hide glue is made up of proteins and collagens from animals. Fish glue obviously uses fish proteins and collagens as where Hide glue uses collagens and proteins from mammals. Fish collagens and proteins dissolve (actually hydrate rather than desolve) simpler than mammal collagens and proteins. These proteins and collagens are hydrated with water and as the water dries, the proteins and collagens form a gel like mass and begain shrinking back to their minimum cell structure while locking very tightly with each other. You can allow this mass of cells to set for hundreds of years until there is absolutely no moisture left in the cell structure and then rehydrate the structure and repeat the process over and over again and basically all you have lost is a small amount of no longer viable cell structures and the evaperated moisture, but the majority of the proteins are still there and can be rehydrated. You can logicly deduce that there has to be an eventual shelf life. So I highly recommend that you never buy nor use fish glue that has been botteled for more than a century or two.

As expected the same is true of HHG. You can mix up HHG pore it out on a table and let it dry out to a rock. You can keep this rock near forever then break this rock up and grind it into a powder and rehydrate it. the only real limit is the bacteria that the proteins get expossed to and there by consumed and turned into gas or sugers.

 

[gator payne]

i guess it would be a good time to tell the one weakness that Fish glue has as compaired to HHG. Because HHG requires heat to cause the rehydration and easy flow HHG is far less suseptible to moisture causing it to soften. Fish glue on the other hand need really no heat beyond room temp (60F+) to rehydrate. With the right amount of moisture and enough time fish glue will rehydrate. So only use fish glue wher you know it will not be setting in water for any length of time because it will soften. this is not an issue once you have sealed it so that moisture cant set there and soften it So only use Fish glue if you are going to apply a finish over the joints. i don't recommend it for non finished products unless those products are eatable then it is fine. The odds are you eat some fish glue almost every day.

That said I have maded up test block jointed with Fish glue and hung in my shower for a week and none failed but I submerged the blocks in tap water for an hour and easly seperated the joints.

makes you wonder why fish don't fall apart in the water >>>>>>>>HUMMMMMMMMM

 

[silverkw]

Awesome, thanks Gator!

I am going to answer but at the same time challenge you by tickling the neurons in charge of your thought process a tad

Fish glue like Hide glue is made up of proteins and collagens from animals. Fish glue obviously uses fish proteins and collagens as where Hide glue uses collagens and proteins from mammals. Fish collagens and proteins dissolve (actually hydrate rather than desolve) simpler than mammal collagens and proteins. These proteins and collagens are hydrated with water and as the water dries, the proteins and collagens form a gel like mass and begain shrinking back to their minimum cell structure while locking very tightly with each other. You can allow this mass of cells to set for hundreds of years until there is absolutely no moisture left in the cell structure and then rehydrate the structure and repeat the process over and over again and basically all you have lost is a small amount of no longer viable cell structures and the evaperated moisture, but the majority of the proteins are still there and can be rehydrated. You can logicly deduce that there has to be an eventual shelf life. So I highly recommend that you never buy nor use fish glue that has been botteled for more than a century or two.

As expected the same is true of HHG. You can mix up HHG pore it out on a table and let it dry out to a rock. You can keep this rock near forever then break this rock up and grind it into a powder and rehydrate it. the only real limit is the bacteria that the proteins get expossed to and there by consumed and turned into gas or sugers.

 

[TKOjams]

If you're using humbuckers, the pickups will assume the angle of the mounting rings. The mounting rings will assume the angle of your pickup plane no matter what angle your pickup cavities are routed to. The only time it is critical that the pickup cavity be routed to the neck angle is when you're using soap bar p90's, as they mount into the bottom of the pup rout.

 

[shorty85]

All good things to know.

Thanks guys.

 

[Archer]

About the fish glue, is it suitable for all guitar joints (top to body, neck to body, headstock laminate, etc.)?

 

[gator payne]

About the fish glue, is it suitable for all guitar joints (top to body, neck to body, headstock laminate, etc.)?

Well lets see>>>> HUMMM... scratching my head>>>> yep

I have 40 some odd acoustics that have been out in the public for 7 - 10 years that were built with nothing but Fish glue. they all have thin tops and backs thta were joined with fish glue. Zero failures. now I still prefer HHG for center seam joints on acoustics but fish glue is everybit as good as PVA and better for several reasons.

Fish clue can do anything PVA can and then some due to creep resistance

 

[silverkw]

Well lets see>>>> HUMMM... scratching my head>>>> yep

I have 40 some odd acoustics that have been out in the public for 7 - 10 years that were built with nothing but Fish glue. they all have thin tops and backs thta were joined with fish glue. Zero failures. now I still prefer HHG for center seam joints on acoustics but fish glue is everybit as good as PVA and better for several reasons.

Fish clue can do anything PVA can and then some due to creep resistance

Gator, I've seen you mentioning about fish glue used for frets, I guess the moisture in the fret board (sweat, etc) would not be enough to cause any issue with fish glue there?

 

[gator payne]

Gator, I've seen you mentioning about fish glue used for frets, I guess the moisture in the fret board (sweat, etc) would not be enough to cause any issue with fish glue there?

Like I have said before I have taken 2 pieces of maple1" thick and 1/8" thick maple and glued then together with fish glue, hung them in my shower for a week and the joint did not fail. Now they were not getting constanly soaked by the shower spray but they were gettin affected by the warm steam in the shower and I take long hot showers