An open letter to Henry J.

[dougk]

I think Henry J. is spot on. I honestly don’t understand what any of you have to bitch about. As near as I can tell, your complaint with Gibson on this issue is that Gibson requires terms with their dealers that are relatively hard for small shops to meet.

I strongly suspect that if Gibson provided the best possible terms for these small shops, in the end it won’t make any difference. Virtually every type of retail shopping has now been overtaken by large nationwide retailers. Obviously, it doesn’t hurt to carry a major guitar line like Gibson, but if a shop is going under, it’s going under with or without them.

I’m repeating Henry in saying this, but the problem is the customer. While some, maybe many, on this forum would choose to spend more and buy from a small shop, the reality is most general customers won’t. I’d bet there are actually quite a few on this forum who have gone to a local shop, tried out equipment, and then went online to find it for the lowest possible price.

In the end, most consumers simply are not willing to pay for the type of service a small shop could provide. If it’s not in Gibson’s best interest to work with these small shops, then why should they? And certainly, why is that a reason to act as if Gibson/Henry J. has somehow personally affronted you.

Sadly, there is so much truth to this its painful. I don't know if going back to Mom and Pop's would help or not.

To me the internet has been about 50% of killing the small retailer. So many people will opt to save 30 bucks and buy it online instead of supporting local business.

The one saving grace is there are a lot of people who want to "run the racks" so to speak with guitars... that helps. The smart shop owners are picking up smaller boutique brands to fill the void like crazy.

The one thing Gibson might not realize is this: this is simply the best time ever to be a guitar player. There are dozens, hundreds maybe even thousands of absolutely fantastic brands, styles and types of guitars out there. So much quality compared to even 10 years ago that Gibson is simply going to keep helping the little guy stay in business.

And as one of those little guys, I say Thank You.

 

[colchar]

I went to the Eagles training camp at Lehigh University today, on the way home my dad and I drove through the town I grew up in. You know what I saw coming through?

Rita's Italian Ice, McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, CVS, Dunkin' Donuts, Turkey Hill, K-mart, H&R Block, Blocklbuster, Giant Grocery, Advanced Auto, Rite-Aid, Arby's, Midas Automotive, etc.

You know what I don't see anymore? The Broadway Diner, Pepi's Deli and Market, Sandt's Market, Sandt's Pharmacy, Go-Go Bob Auto Repair, Mr. Kelly's small machine and appliance repair, Sunday Video, and the old Ice Cream parlor.

Now tell me what you see when you drive through your small town. It's all the same shit. There's a few locals and independants hanging on...we have a one screen theater, local bars and restaurants, a frame shop, and a laundromat, also the Assisted Living Facility my dad started in 1987, which is not chain or corporate owned, but everything is finally looking the same. It took a long time, and people have been saying it for years, but the assimilation is nearly complete.

But isn't that the consumer's fault? If a fast food chain moved in but didn't make any money because people chose to go to their local independent place then the other chains wouldn't follow and perhaps the original one would leave town too.

The reason these local independent places closed is that they weren't making enough money, weren't making any money, or were losing money. Why did that happen after years of being viable businesses? Because the consumers went elsewhere.

The chains have every right to exist and consumers have every right to choose which restaurant they want to support. If the consumers choose to support the chain rather than the much better local places then that makes the demise of these local places the consumer's fault. And I think that is what Henry was trying to say. I don't think he said it very well, but I get his point.

Personally, I will always choose a smaller local restaurant over a chain like Mickey D's but far too many people don't make that same choice. Because of that local places close down. But it isn't the chains who are to blame, because they have every right to exist, the fault lies entirely with the consumers.

 

[colchar]

In Philadelphia there are two famous Cheesesteak joints, Pat's and Gino's, right across the street from one another. They both make great cheesesteaks, and they both get plenty of business.

If the Walmart corporation decided that it wanted to buy Pat's, and Pat agreed to sell, they would conduct a sweeping ad campaign claiming total perfection of all things Pat, cut operating costs through low wages and low quality ingredients, cut prices so low they were operating at a loss, then continue advertising and cutting prices until nobody went to Gino's anymore.

At that point, Pat's would then continue to use all of the cost cutting measures while jacking up the prices so that they can make that profit they were after. If you want a cheesesteak you'll buy it from them, god damn it.

Also, if Pat refused to sell in the beginning, they would open a third shop and employ all the same techniques.

Big business.

But ultimately it is the consumers who make the choice so, in the end, it is their fault. What Walmart is doing in your scenario might not be all that ethical, the fact remains that nobody forces consumers into its outlets - people choose to shop there so, again, it is the consumer's fault.

 

[colchar]

Please join! Money leaving the local economy is HUGE. All of those chains you see funnel money out of your hometown. When's the last time you saw things like the Walmart baseball team, or the Mcdonalds football team?

They exist in every single little league (hockey, soccer, baseball, football, etc.) around here.

 

[GNR4EVR]

I do the critical final 10% on Gibsons all day. I am fixing Tommy Thayer's les Paul right now with an issue that should have never been allowed to leave the factory.

Let's see where Gibson is in a year.

+1. It seems theres more and more quality control issues slipping by lately. Been hearing of some.

 

[GNR4EVR]

Sadly, there is so much truth to this its painful. I don't know if going back to Mom and Pop's would help or not.

To me the internet has been about 50% of killing the small retailer. So many people will opt to save 30 bucks and buy it online instead of supporting local business.

The one saving grace is there are a lot of people who want to "run the racks" so to speak with guitars... that helps. The smart shop owners are picking up smaller boutique brands to fill the void like crazy.

The one thing Gibson might not realize is this: this is simply the best time ever to be a guitar player. There are dozens, hundreds maybe even thousands of absolutely fantastic brands, styles and types of guitars out there. So much quality compared to even 10 years ago that Gibson is simply going to keep helping the little guy stay in business.

And as one of those little guys, I say Thank You.

Nobody is saying to stop selling with the big boys and give all of it to the Mom & Pops, just spread it out and give the Mom & Pops a fair shot, which apparently, without some insane ideas and rules, Henry wont entertain the idea at all. Excessively closed minded, IMO.

 

[Leumas]

But isn't that the consumer's fault? If a fast food chain moved in but didn't make any money because people chose to go to their local independent place then the other chains wouldn't follow and perhaps the original one would leave town too.

<snip>

Personally, I will always choose a smaller local restaurant over a chain like Mickey D's but far too many people don't make that same choice. Because of that local places close down. But it isn't the chains who are to blame, because they have every right to exist, the fault lies entirely with the consumers.

I am in no way arguing that chains and big stores do not have the right to exist. My only point is that they have money and resources at their disposal that the little guy will never have.

I am not even disagreeing entirely that it is the customer's "fault", though I hate that it's being framed that way, and the reason for my original post. There's a lot of money at stake in advertising and brand management. The "you'll think what they want you to think" mentality.

All these big places have a right to exist, and are not inherently bad...but you don't think most communities would be a little better off if their members owned a few more businesses and the corporate giants owned a few less?

 

[ACELUEK]

So they are keeping you in business! Nevermind Hank, just keep doing what you're doing.

There we go. Now I understand. Hank (Henry) does care about the smaller shops. If his guitars had higher quality, he would put them out of business.

 

[Leumas]

But ultimately it is the consumers who make the choice so, in the end, it is their fault. What Walmart is doing in your scenario might not be all that ethical, the fact remains that nobody forces consumers into its outlets - people choose to shop there so, again, it is the consumer's fault.

That line "might not be all that ethical". I'm not arguing against a specific business or scenario, but the general lack of ethics and view of the big picture involved in the giants.

We can't expect "Walmart" (or any others) to give a shit about anything but pure profits. They're doing exactly what they're designed to do..make money hand over fist at any and all expense. If that means poor treatment of its workers, destroying local economies, sending jobs overseas, so be it.

You're quick to say it's the consumer's fault, it's what they want, and it's a tidy little statement, but you don't think there's HUGE money in keeping the consumer from finding out exactly what it is they're choosing? And you don't find anything wrong with that?

 

[Leumas]

They exist in every single little league (hockey, soccer, baseball, football, etc.) around here.

Wow. That shouldn't surprise me, but it does.

 

[tojo]

I can't help think that the internet is as likely responsible for the demise of the mom and pop as much as anything - maybe not for groceries or consumables - but certainly for durable goods and technology products - much like guitars and amps. Even the big chains don't have an unlimited selection to choose from any more. If you have something specific you want, there's no guarantee you'll find it on a shelf somewhere even at Sam Ash - not with guitars or amps or even effects. Most of the effects and accessories I have were bought on-line - because the stores, even the mom and pops, only stock what moves - and that hasn't always been what I wanted. I'm left only with the internet as an option. And with the fast processing these days - I sometimes get my gear the next day at no extra charge. An unlimited selection, competitive pricing and super fast turnaround - to me, the internet is the real thorn in the side of small business. Surely, the GC's of the world have done their part - but they are not the only culprit, and maybe not even the main one. You can avoid the big chains all you want, but if you shop on line - you're doing just as much or more damage to the little guy.

But to Leumas' point, and for my money he made an outstanding one (many kudos leumas), the issue with Gibson is not so much their strategy because it has apparently worked for them - up to now at least. Who can begrudge them that. The problem I have, like others, is Henry's apparent attitude about the very suggestion that they loosen their distribution policy. Heck, how hard would it be for them to run some sort of a reduced volume distribution 'pilot' just to see what happens. Call it R&D; call it whatever you want. But to dismiss the idea as ludicrous and ignorant - as he seems to be doing, is more than a little arrogant and misguided.

I can respect a business for doing what it thinks it needs to do to stay on top. But it is hard to respect a business that disregards its' customer base so vehemently. Strange approach for sure. But it explains a lot. It will come back to bite them in the end. Again, I really think they were taken aback by some of the feedback they have gotten from this forum. They are backpedlaing and in defense mode at this point. Rather than taking it on the chin and thanking people for their opinions - he is lashing out to a degree. CEO 101 - accept all the blame, deflect all the glory. Henry missed that day...

I am reminded of a great song;

Well you can stick your nine to five livin'
And your collar and your tie
And stick your moral standards
'Cause it's all a dirty lie
You can stick your golden handshake
And you can stick your silly rules
And all the other shit
That they teach to kids in school
'Cause I... ain't... no... fool...

Man I love those guys (AC/DC)

 

[VictorB]

I went to the Eagles training camp at Lehigh University today, on the way home my dad and I drove through the town I grew up in. You know what I saw coming through?

Rita's Italian Ice, McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, CVS, Dunkin' Donuts, Turkey Hill, K-mart, H&R Block, Blocklbuster, Giant Grocery, Advanced Auto, Rite-Aid, Arby's, Midas Automotive, etc.

Were you on Airport Rd?

I'll be playing this Friday at Mezza Luna on Airport Rd....

 

[DRF]

Let me play Devils advocate once again,I may be able to look at this one way as another unbalanced person might.

Again,whats the problem? So you love a brand so much you hate to see what the owner of the company is doing to its name,is that it?.

Henry bought the company a quarter century ago when it was floundering and turned it around into a multi billion dollar business that has many brands under its umbrella-is this not correct?. Well even if it went tits up tomorrow,he still had a better run than any of us and still has the Gibby name. Its kinda like a celebrity was acting for 25yrs and made millions,lived the life,screwed gorgeous broads and then people say "oh his career tanked",well so what,he did it and I gotta be at work tomorrow shoveling shit.

I can see where a independent store wants the brand cause its still in demand. Privately though,for us allegedly on MLP who know better about things like quality in the guitar world...well?. I can type out that list of manufactures again,but just like soccer moms buying for the kids-the blinders are on.

 

[L60N]

Henry has "fans"

 

[VictorB]

Henry has "fans"

In his own mind he's a celebrity.

 

[L60N]

Certainly seems that way eh.

He needs to get back down to earth. He's selling musical instruments, not music.

 

[Nightrain]

I don't get why Gibson can't chuck a few extra guitars on the delivery truck, and have small stores pick them up from a specific depot in an area. Sounds to me that Henry thinks that by offering decent rates to small stores will make actually getting those guitars to the small stores a nightmare, there's got to be thousands of them.. so make them come to you? Even have them pay for shipping directly from the Gibson factory if they don't want to/can't pick them up from a depot.. the shop will make a nice profit on them anyway surely?

 

[kernelofwisdom]

leumas,

Your rebuttal was great; your points are well made.

 

[Deus Vult]

I can't help think that the internet is as likely responsible for the demise of the mom and pop as much as anything - maybe not for groceries or consumables - but certainly for durable goods and technology products - much like guitars and amps. Even the big chains don't have an unlimited selection to choose from any more. If you have something specific you want, there's no guarantee you'll find it on a shelf somewhere even at Sam Ash - not with guitars or amps or even effects. Most of the effects and accessories I have were bought on-line - because the stores, even the mom and pops, only stock what moves - and that hasn't always been what I wanted. I'm left only with the internet as an option. And with the fast processing these days - I sometimes get my gear the next day at no extra charge. An unlimited selection, competitive pricing and super fast turnaround - to me, the internet is the real thorn in the side of small business. Surely, the GC's of the world have done their part - but they are not the only culprit, and maybe not even the main one. You can avoid the big chains all you want, but if you shop on line - you're doing just as much or more damage to the little guy.

/thread

the internet is king. why wait for something to be ordered when you can have it next day and for a cheaper price?

 

[Leumas]

Let me play Devils advocate once again,I may be able to look at this one way as another unbalanced person might.

Again,whats the problem? So you love a brand so much you hate to see what the owner of the company is doing to its name,is that it?.

<snip>

I do not wish to take away any accomplishments Mr. J. has on his resume, I've stated several times his job isn't easy, he's a CEO, and I'm a nobody. The only reason we're having this conversation is because of the way he has interacted with the public that he was so enthusiastic to get in touch with.

He is in charge of a business that most, if not all of us have been involved in. Whether that's as a small retailer, employee of a larger one, artist, or simply bought a Gibson/Epiphone at one point.

He can do what he wishes with his company. What he did though was ask for opinions from those of us who are in some way, small or large, involved in his company. When he got answers that didn't agree with his sensibilities, he reacted in an extremely bizarre manner.

PR is as big a deal as any other aspect of business in todays world. Ask BP. You can be the popular guy, or you can be the ruthless guy, you need both really, but it is impossible for one person to be both.

Seriously, imagine the CEO of any other company on the planet waltzing out into the general public and accusing them of DICTATING what he or she should do. It's really wild stuff. He would be wise to stay behind the curtain, and hire a glowing personality to be the public face of Gibson. The guy that demos the products, hypes the company, runs the forum, etc.

You can't be that sensitive and that close to the public at the same time. He sidelined Greg simply because he used the word "bullshit" in the title. PC, no, but if you're the big man you can't get rattled when somebody uses a naughty word.