Amp Test Drive Today (Bugera, Jet City, Egnater, etc.)

[mmcquain]

So I'm wanting to find a new small combo tube amp and figured today (Presidents Day) would be a good time check out a couple of amps I've had my eye on for a while since they had some sales going on today. Well I end the day with no new amp but I'm a little wiser and have taken 2 of my possibilities off my list after test driving them today. So I'm open to comments and suggestions as my search continues.

First, here's my requirements list...

• Small 1x12" combo (but I would consider something like the Egnator Rebal 20 head with 12" speaker (but nothing bigger than that).
• Low wattage (20 watts +/-) - since the places I play (church, blues jam, recording, etc.) I'll mic the amp and I just don't have the chance to really "open up" louder (i.e., higher wattage) amps in order to get decent sounds out of them.
• Tube amp that takes pedals well - When playing with the praise band I use a rather extensive pedalboard and need a wide range of overdrive/distortion and clean tones depending on the song so I'll be using some pedals to push the amp (e.g., Hot Cake Bluesberry, Barber Direct Drive, MI Audio Crunchbox, Rat, Little Big Muff) and have other effects (wah, phase, delay, etc.)
• Effects loop - this is a nice to have as I'd prefer to run my delay/modulation effects in the loop if possible (but this is not a must have)
• Good clean sounds
• Good bluesy overdrive sounds when pushed WITHOUT pedals- sometimes I'll want to take just the amp and a guitar to a blues jam and want to get decent (bluesy) tube overdrive tones WITHOUT pedals on these occassions.
• Works well with both humbuckers (Gibson CS-356 with Classic 57 pups or a Les Paul) and singlecoils (Strat or Tele).
• Budget - up to $500 (at least that's what the wife wants it to be - LOL)

So with the above spec list in mind I wanted to test drive the Bugera V22 and the new JetCity 20 watt combo today. I ended up also trying the Egnater Rebel 20. Here's my thoughts and finding...

Bugera V22 (20 watt tube combo with 12") - Used a G0 Les Paul (Guitar Center's 1960 VOS Reissue) plugged directly into the amp's normal input. They were selling these for $319 on sale today.

On paper this amp seemed to meet all of my requirements (even comes with an effects loop). And at first I liked the sounds of this amp. Decent cleans and nice warm overdrive at reasonable volume levels (i.e. bedroom to stage volume if mic'd).

But then I heard it! The infamous tube rattle/buzz that many have mentioned in recent forum discussions. It was most noticable when I was on the overdrive and hit a C note on the D string at the 10th fret. So whatever frequency that equals seems to cause something in the tube or chassis to resonate. It was loud enough (coming thru the speaker) to make me say NO to this amp (even though I really liked some of the other sounds I got out of it).

Jet City JCA2112RC (20 watt tube combo with 12") - Used a Les Paul Traditional and a Fender Eric Clapton Strat plugged directly into the amp. They are selling these for $400 this month at Sam Ash (regularly $499 but with an extra 20% off with coupon http://www.samashmusic.com/coupons/sam-ash-coupons-feb-2010.pdf )

I really liked the blues overdrive sounds I got out of this amp (I went for a creamy "woman tone" on the Les Paul's neck pup with the tone rolled back). However, it seems to be something of a "one-trick pony" since no matter what I tried it always had some type of overdrive sound (i.e., it did NOT clean up enough for my needs - even with the Gain turned down to 1). So my thought is that this amp (designed my Mike Soldano) would be good for warm tube overdrives, etc. but is not a true multi-purpose amp.

Egnater Rebel 20 (head with 1 to 20 watt control and variably switchable between 6L6 and EL84 tubes, with 12" cabinet) - Used the same G0 Les Paul (see above) and played around with the Bright and Tight switches.

This is a great little amp overall. It cleans up nice and has some nice overdrive and tone combinations when mixing the tubes. I preferred the keep the Bright and Tight switches off but that's just a personal thing. However, the head/cabinet cost around $800 combined so it doesn't really meet my requirements (but I haven't completely ruled it out). But it is still really nice little amp.


So now I'm still searching. I've owned a couple of Peavey Classic 30's over the years and they are close to what I'm searching for. However, they are actually too loud for my needs (I could never get above about 2-4 in many situations). So I'm thinking 30 watts is probably too powerful (but I know that really depends on the amp). Right now I have a Peavey VK112 (50 watt tube combo with 12") and it is somewhat like the Classic 30... but still isn't what I really need. So the search continues... any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Oh BTW, a friend of mine just built a Dumble clone that he swears will meet all of my needs. I will get a chance to test drive it this summer when I visit him. He based it off of this design (but tweaked it some): http://schematicheaven.com/dumbleamps/dumble_layout_50w.pdf
So I'm interested in hearing any comments from any of you custom amp/clone builders as to what you think of this idea.

 

[LesPowl]

mmcquain,

i am kinda searching for the same thing.
And had similar experiences with the named amps.

Sb. just recommended Hayden amps and i must say, i am quite impressed.
The "Mofo Mini" i.e. has an fx loop, 15w, sounds damn nice...

Also if you like the Egnater, there is the new baby "Tweaker" about to come out in april. Also 15watts, i think it had an fx-loop as well and praised as versatile as nothing else on the market.

I think both are a good starting point, but need some patience.
Seems to be kinda new generation...

Paul

 

[mmcquain]

mmcquain,

i am kinda searching for the same thing.
And had similar experiences with the named amps.

Sb. just recommended Hayden amps and i must say, i am quite impressed.
The "Mofo Mini" i.e. has an fx loop, 15w, sounds damn nice...

Also if you like the Egnater, there is the new baby "Tweaker" about to come out in april. Also 15watts, i think it had an fx-loop as well and praised as versatile as nothing else on the market.

I think both are a good starting point, but need some patience.
Seems to be kinda new generation...

Paul

My mistake on the effects loop (i.e., the Rebel 20 DOES HAVE an effects loop)... I've corrected my review above. And yes, it is a really sweet amp but maybe I'll wait on the Tweaker (do you know a price point on that one?)

 

[danzego]

I would consider a Vox Night Train. If you already have a cabinet, you're in as far as budget is concerned and if not, you can get close if you find a deal. Normally $500, I got a Night Train head for $407 with 15% off President's Day coupon at GC yesterday. If you get their catalog each month, it has a 10% off coupon. Then it's just a matter of catching a used cab on the cheap.

It doesn't have the effects loop you're looking for and it doesn't have built in reverb. It WILL get you some darn nice tones from blues to hard rock, though. It's 15 watts- a LOUD 15 watts- so it's right in your power range.

Me, I considered several amp prospects, including Fender Super Champ XD, Fender Blues Jr, Bugera V22, Blackstar HT-5, Jet City JCA20, Peavey Classic 30, Marshall Haze 40, etc. and finally settled on the Night Train. I wish I would have just tried it out in the first place, but I was turned off by the price (it IS a bit pricey for what it is). Now that I have it, I hope I actually stick with this one!

 

[SpinWheelz]

Jet City JCA2112RC (20 watt tube combo with 12") - Used a Les Paul Traditional and a Fender Eric Clapton Strat plugged directly into the amp. They are selling these for $400 this month at Sam Ash (regularly $499 but with an extra 20% off with coupon http://www.samashmusic.com/coupons/sam-ash-coupons-feb-2010.pdf )

I really liked the blues overdrive sounds I got out of this amp (I went for a creamy "woman tone" on the Les Paul's neck pup with the tone rolled back). However, it seems to be something of a "one-trick pony" since no matter what I tried it always had some type of overdrive sound (i.e., it did NOT clean up enough for my needs - even with the Gain turned down to 1). So my thought is that this amp (designed my Mike Soldano) would be good for warm tube overdrives, etc. but is not a true multi-purpose amp.

I'm quite surprised with your findings of the Jet City combo. I recently purchased the head, and I was able to put it through some (not all) of its paces this weekend. Part of the reason I made the jump on the amp was because I was able to get some nice clean sounds from it in the store when it was stacked on the Eminence-shod cab. I now have it hooked up to an Avatar cab and I get oodles of clean sounds. More importantly, this was one of the first few times I've been able to roll back the volume knob on my guitar and go from dirt (with the Gain knob on the amp set at about 5-6) to a nice thick clean sound.

The Presence control also does heaps to manage the quality of the overdrive, and I've been trying to find my way around that. I definitely find a broad range in that overdrive tone. Right now, I'm really happy with the amp and I was completely prepared to take it back once I got the amp and got a good shake at it. I've been pleasantly surprised and I'm happier than ever to keep it.

As with most amps, the louder it got, the sweeter it got.

 

[mmcquain]

...I considered several amp prospects, including Fender Super Champ XD, Fender Blues Jr, Bugera V22, Blackstar HT-5, Jet City JCA20, Peavey Classic 30, Marshall Haze 40, etc. and finally settled on the Night Train. I wish I would have just tried it out in the first place, but I was turned off by the price (it IS a bit pricey for what it is). Now that I have it, I hope I actually stick with this one!

Good suggestion... thanks. Someone on another forum suggested the Vox AC15 so I'll have to give Vox a try.

 

[mmcquain]

I'm quite surprised with your findings of the Jet City combo. I recently purchased the head, and I was able to put it through some (not all) of its paces this weekend. Part of the reason I made the jump on the amp was because I was able to get some nice clean sounds from it in the store when it was stacked on the Eminence-shod cab. I now have it hooked up to an Avatar cab and I get oodles of clean sounds. More importantly, this was one of the first few times I've been able to roll back the volume knob on my guitar and go from dirt (with the Gain knob on the amp set at about 5-6) to a nice thick clean sound.

The Presence control also does heaps to manage the quality of the overdrive, and I've been trying to find my way around that. I definitely find a broad range in that overdrive tone. Right now, I'm really happy with the amp and I was completely prepared to take it back once I got the amp and got a good shake at it. I've been pleasantly surprised and I'm happier than ever to keep it.

As with most amps, the louder it got, the sweeter it got.

I was surprised as well. Maybe I need to try the head/cabinet instead of the combo. When you get your cleans, where do your have the Presence set at? I tried it set around 3-4 and up around 6-7.

 

[danzego]

Good suggestion... thanks. Someone on another forum suggested the Vox AC15 so I'll have to give Vox a try.

The Night Train and the AC15 have some in common, but are two different beasts, so if you can try both and see if one is more suitable for you, definitely do that. I know that there's a new version of the AC15 coming out soon (AC15 Custom), which means that it might be a bit hard to find a store with any AC15 in stock (at least it has been for me...but where I live in Oregon limits my choices to begin with). However, they're upgrading the standard Wharfdale speaker to a Celestion in the new model (which is a good thing considering the Wharfdale is generally considering tinny), so it could be worth the wait.

 

[Big John]

I've heard from some reliable sources recently that the little Jet City amp is basically a slightly tweaked Soldano Atomic 16 (no longer in production). If that's the case, then the gain stages are probably hotter than a virgin on a honeymoon. I used to own an Atomic 16 and an Astroverb 16 (very similar circuits), and the best way to get headroom out of this circuit is to cut the gain prior to driving the power tubes. Using a 12AT7 or a 5751 in the V2 position does wonders.

 

[mmcquain]

I've heard from some reliable sources recently that the little Jet City amp is basically a slightly tweaked Soldano Atomic 16 (no longer in production). If that's the case, then the gain stages are probably hotter than a virgin on a honeymoon. I used to own an Atomic 16 and an Astroverb 16 (very similar circuits), and the best way to get headroom out of this circuit is to cut the gain prior to driving the power tubes. Using a 12AT7 or a 5751 in the V2 position does wonders.

I know that Mike Soldano designed the Jet City product line so it wouldn't surprise me if what you heard is true. Nice amp for what it does but it may not be right for my needs.

I'm hearing only good things about the Egnaters... that may be where I end up when its all said and done. I think I will wait until they release the Tweaker and give it a test drive before I make any final decisions.

 

[TeleDog]

The Night Train is an impressive amp, one of the best out there.

Rattling can be caused by many things when you're dealing with a classic circuit. Capacitors are all microphonic, throw in there shitty caps and you end up with rattling and noise. The same applies to tubes. Crappy tubes and tube sockets.

You need to replace the tubes anyway with time, so that's not even an issue. Tube sockets are usually 3 bucks each! Not gonna break the bank there either! lol

This is what gets me, to save a few bucks some manufacturers just use the crappiest parts they can get and a thin PCB with questionable solder joints. That will translate into noise, hum, rattling and other issues no matter what you do, but they're easy to fix.

Oh yeah, the Dumble... I'm building an Overdrive Special as we speak, Hipo's fault!

 

[mmcquain]

So what do you guys think of the Traynor Custom Valve 20WR YCV20WR. It is 15 watts, has the effects loop I want, etc. How's the clean channel and how well does it take pedals? It sounds in theory like a good fit for my needs but I'd love to test drive one and also hear from some of you that have played or own it... how does it hold up for what I need?

 

[mmcquain]

Well I got the TM60 and liked it.... BUT... still wasn't 100% happy - maybe like 85%

So I'll be selling it soon as I just snagged an Egnater Tweaker head and cabinet combo for a really great price! I'll post a new thread once that amp gets here... can't wait to finally get my rig together for (I hope) a long time to come. I'm reworking my pedalboard, will have the small/low wattage tube amp I've been wanting so I should be a very happy camper!!!

 

[Big L]

I'd try the VHT Special 6. Great amp with nice headroom. Handwired. Head or combo. I play mine through a 4x10 cab. Love the sound through my LP. Great buy for under $200.

 

[Dolebludger]

I'd try a different Bugera V22, before I totally gave up on it. The rattle you heard (along with the squeals and static some have reported on examples of this model) are more likely the result of poor quality control than poor design, as not all V22s have these problems. Mine doesn't, but some do, no doubt. The situation is much the same a with Epiphone guitars, which are known to have quality control issues.

 

[mmcquain]

FYI - My search is over for now... after trying the Tech 21 Trademark 60
(which is a great little amp, but just not exactly what I wanted) I found
a great deal on a used Egnater Tweaker... so Happy N.A.D. to me!!!

 

[Iceman0124]

The Blackstar HT20 is high on my interest list, as well as the very affordable Ibanez Tubescreamer amp.

 

[mmcquain]

In case any of you are interested, here's my early thoughts on the Egnater Tweaker amp... I'll provide a more indepth review later when I have a little more time. I used her for practice for the Wizard of Oz show I'm playing this week (high school production with 6 performances over 5 days). So I'll be able to give a better report at the end of the week but here's what I know so far...

I'm very happy with how it takes pedals - right now I've been running all pedals in front of the amp (dirt and delay/modulation) and it sounds sweet. However, I'm putting the finishing touches on a custom true-bypass looper that will let me run the dirt pedals in front of the amp and put the delay/modulation ones into the amp's effects loop. I should have that done before the show opens on Tuesday so I'll get back to ya' on how the amp's effects loop sounds (I am thinking it will sound EVEN BETTER than it already does, which will make me even happier!)

I really have only played around with the amp's switches (Vox/Fender/Marshall and Vintage/Modern) only a little bit but I liked what I heard. Didn't spend a lot of time dialing in all the tones this thing is supposed to be able to produce... but I did print off the sample settings sheet from the Egnater website and I hope to play around more once things settle down after this show is over, etc. So far I'm running the amp pretty clean (USA/Fender sound and I go back and forth between the Vintage/Modern setting... still experimenting).

My settings so far are Bass/Treble set to around 2-3 o'clock, Mid rolled back to 11 o'clock, Gain rolled back to a nice clean sound and the Master Volume is kept under control since I have the amp on a stand right next to me and am using it basically to just hear myself in the mix. We're micing the amp (SM57) to feed the mixer for the band's monitor mix and the FOH for the audience. I do have a live drummer next to me (but he's pretty low-key for this show).

I'll have to let you know how the amp holds up in a more rocking (i.e., louder) stage setting with a full band. Hope to put together a blues jam with some friends before long so we'll see how the amp holds it's own in that type of setup... I think it should do very well (especially if I throw an SM57 on it and feed it to the mixer).

So far I'm mainly playing my Strat thru the amp (Strat works well for the Wizard songs) but my gut is that I'll be very happy with how the Gibson 356 sounds thru the amp once I get around to really trying it out.

 

[brianugly]

I am glad you like the amp! The tweaker and the Mesa Transatlantic look pretty sweet to me.

 

[cynic79]

I'm curious to hear what you think of the Tweaker compared to the Rebel 20. I've been meaning to test drive the Tweaker, but I haven't made it to the local guitar emporium in the last month or so.