Advice on Seth Lover being too bright...wiring/pots, etc???

morelespaul

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I have an older Yamaha SE110 which is kind of a strat copy / superstrat / poor man's Tom Delonge Strat. It's got a single humbucker in the bridge w/ Volume control ONLY. No tone. It was made this way, stock.
It sounded pretty good with the stock pickup (which may be made by Dimarzio, according to some sources...very little info on this guitar) but I love my Seth Lover humbuckers so I thought I'd try one in the guitar and see if it made it sound amazing (like the Seth's did for my SG copy).
It sounds pretty good in there but is waaayyy too bright and hard to tame, especially
with no tone control on the guitar. From reading posts about this I'm figuring it's partly
due to the fact that there is no tone control and it has a 500k (stock) pot.
I think the guitar has a 'Nato' body (I think) and has pretty good natural tone. It's kind of medium heavy in weight for the size it is and I don't think it's due to glue in the body.
Anyway... any advice on bringing down the trebliness of this Seth Lover in the bridge?
I'm thinking of trying a 250k pot, but hoping it doesn't muddy it up or kill some of the tone.
Actually, I should state that the seth's, when in my sg copy, sound great, but really mainly the neck sounds big/full/warm and the bridge was just so-so in that guitar, but did sound acceptable. I have a really hard time, in general, finding anything I like in a bridge position.
So, please, thoughts on pots and/or resistors/caps etc. There is no cap on this guitar, just a 500k volume pot. ...and I don't really want to add a tone pot if possible...but may have to.
Thanks!
 

ARandall

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Well, by making the pickup less bright by definition you are doing just that - killing some of the tone.

As well as either a 300k or 250k pot, why not buy a few large resistors and a cap or two. Place them in series to ground from the vol pot and you have a tone circuit. Experiment with the typical figures you'd find normally with the tone circuit. Just having a tone pot in there on 10 does cut highs.
 

morelespaul

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Well, by making the pickup less bright by definition you are doing just that - killing some of the tone.

As well as either a 300k or 250k pot, why not buy a few large resistors and a cap or two. Place them in series to ground from the vol pot and you have a tone circuit. Experiment with the typical figures you'd find normally with the tone circuit. Just having a tone pot in there on 10 does cut highs.
Is there a good way to wire this up where I don't have to keep restringing the guitar in order to experiment with a one cap/resistor, then another? Maybe an alligator clip coming out from under the pickguard or something?
 

Jymbopalyse

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Have you tried adjusting the pickup height?
This actually did wonders on a pickup that I thought was just JUNK.
 

morelespaul

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Have you tried adjusting the pickup height?
This actually did wonders on a pickup that I thought was just JUNK.
Hm. No, I didn't. I'm aware of pickup height adjustment and how drastic an effect it can have, but it never crossed my mind, lol. It's about as easy an adjustment as there is, so I'll give it a quick try and see if it does anything to help. Thanks.
 

cybermgk

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Hm. No, I didn't. I'm aware of pickup height adjustment and how drastic an effect it can have, but it never crossed my mind, lol. It's about as easy an adjustment as there is, so I'll give it a quick try and see if it does anything to help. Thanks.
If this doesn't help (it will make a difference), maybe entertain the idea of adding a tone pot?
 

morelespaul

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While I'm at the computer here, however, any suggestions on how to add a cap or resistor to a VOLUME POT ONLY / humbucker guitar to tame the treble ??? All I'm seeing is
treble bleed mods and that, I think, will just do the opposite of what I'm after. Thanks.
 

morelespaul

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If this doesn't help (it will make a difference), maybe entertain the idea of adding a tone pot?
That would be a 'final option', but I'm trying to avoid altering the guitar and just
really wanted to have the 'fun' of only having a volume pot. It was/is kind of the point
I had in sticking this seth lover in this guitar. I may have to go back to the original pickup since it seemed to sound better, paired with this guitar. But I'd like to give the Seth a few more chances.
 

GitFiddle

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Is there a good way to wire this up where I don't have to keep restringing the guitar in order to experiment with a one cap/resistor, then another? Maybe an alligator clip coming out from under the pickguard or something?

Whenever I need to work on pickups and wiring on my Strat I loosen each string until it will fit over a large glass bottleneck slide placed near the uppermost frets. This keeps the strings wound and in place, and allows enough room to slide the pickguard in and out of place.
 

ARandall

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While I'm at the computer here, however, any suggestions on how to add a cap or resistor to a VOLUME POT ONLY / humbucker guitar to tame the treble ??? All I'm seeing is
treble bleed mods and that, I think, will just do the opposite of what I'm after. Thanks.
Its exactly the same as what the tone circuit is. From a vol pot lug you solder a cap+resistor in series to ground.
 

morelespaul

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Its exactly the same as what the tone circuit is. From a vol pot lug you solder a cap+resistor in series to ground.
Still somewhat new to the caps/resistor stuff, so forgive me, but that's not the same as a treble bleed? I just can't find any examples online (in the whole wide world web world) except treble bleed examples. At least nothing with a volume only situation.
 

ARandall

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Not in the slightest. A treble bleed goes across the two lugs of the volume pot.

All you are doing is making the the tone tone pot arrangement without the 'pot' part of it.....which means a substituting fixed resistor. As such, every tone circuit image on google on the whole wordwide web has what you want, if you are limited by needing such a diagram when I have already told you precisely how to make it already.
 

marksoundguitars

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I built a take on Seymour's Tele-Gib for myself, using the JB/Jazz set and 250K pots. It's still plenty bright, but with a "flavor" that's not like a Gibson style guitar.

It won't hurt anything to try a good quality 250K pot, but I'd add a treble bleed kit. If you don't like it, change it back.
 

morelespaul

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Whenever I need to work on pickups and wiring on my Strat I loosen each string until it will fit over a large glass bottleneck slide placed near the uppermost frets. This keeps the strings wound and in place, and allows enough room to slide the pickguard in and out of place.
Thanks for the suggestion. I do that too sometimes, lol. I kind of hate doing it that way, but in this case, I think I'll do that.
 

morelespaul

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I built a take on Seymour's Tele-Gib for myself, using the JB/Jazz set and 250K pots. It's still plenty bright, but with a "flavor" that's not like a Gibson style guitar.

It won't hurt anything to try a good quality 250K pot, but I'd add a treble bleed kit. If you don't like it, change it back.
I think I'll try 'AR's' suggestion first and if that doesn't do it, go with a 250k and, yes, putting a treble bleed in might be a good idea. Thanks.
Not in the slightest. A treble bleed goes across the two lugs of the volume pot.

All you are doing is making the the tone tone pot arrangement without the 'pot' part of it.....which means a substituting fixed resistor. As such, every tone circuit image on google on the whole wordwide web has what you want, if you are limited by needing such a diagram when I have already told you precisely how to make it already.
So it doesn't matter which lug I attach to on the volume pot (obviously other than the 'grounded to the top' lug? And when I ground the cap/resistor, can I just ground it to the top of the pot? Got any recommendations on values? I'm looking for something that works for a blues tone or old rock, pushing a tube amp, but I'm not looking for Van halen tones or anything resembling metal, etc. Also, with regard to 'taper', I noticed that I could barely back the volume off without it going too quiet. I mean, I've played with volumes that backed off really quick, but with this volume, you barely move it back it in nosedives in volume. I didn't notice it doing that before w/ the other pickup, so it might the way it acts with this Seth Lover. I'd prefer a more gradual taper, ..at least somewhat. Thanks again.
 

ARandall

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The lug will make a difference.
Attach it to the one the pickup wire goes to and you have modern wiring, and as you roll down volume you'll get a fairly noticeable darkening of the tone.
The middle lug is where the 50's tone circuit was attached, and you get more treble remaining as you roll down.
You don't want it attached to the grounded lug obviously.

As to values, well as you have a fixed effect it will be wise to buy a range of resistor values. The typical tone pot is a 500k, so if you get them in 100k increments that will give you a number of possible tone pot positions. The typical cap is .022uF.

This sticky thread shows the typical K readings for different type of pot tapers....that at least can tell you what the most even taper is called for purchase usage: http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/volume-pot-taper-count-ups.225271/
 

morelespaul

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The lug will make a difference.
Attach it to the one the pickup wire goes to and you have modern wiring, and as you roll down volume you'll get a fairly noticeable darkening of the tone.
The middle lug is where the 50's tone circuit was attached, and you get more treble remaining as you roll down.
You don't want it attached to the grounded lug obviously.

As to values, well as you have a fixed effect it will be wise to buy a range of resistor values. The typical tone pot is a 500k, so if you get them in 100k increments that will give you a number of possible tone pot positions. The typical cap is .022uF.

This sticky thread shows the typical K readings for different type of pot tapers....that at least can tell you what the most even taper is called for purchase usage: http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/volume-pot-taper-count-ups.225271/
Okay, thanks! That's very helpful. I'll give some of this a try and see if I can tame it a bit. I'll follow up later and report results just for the heck of it. Thanks again.
 

moreles

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Jeez... sorry I can't recall the date, but Premier Guitar had an article about the wiring A Randall suggests -- adding a resistor -- and I tried this on an excessively bright guitar of my own and after some fiddling with the value, it worked perfectly. It's easy to figure out and to do, and it works.
 

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