Advice on Buying a Historic

[mallcorn]

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I haven’t posted on here in a couple years. I was asked on a different forum on advice on buying a first historic LP so I thought I’d copy & paste my response. Hope this helps!

I bought the first reissue new (2014 R9, see photos below) from Long and McQuade in 2017… they made a mistake with the pricing though I think as I paid about $6000 CAD iirc and sold it on Kijiji (Canadian craigslist) for the same amount a couple months later. I would NEVER buy an R9 new again unless Im custom ordering one to my personal specs…. otherwise it’s just not worth the price-tag premium IMO (unless you’re personally into guitars that are brand new / glossy). I typically go for aged finishes with reissues as you can continue to beat them up without damaging the value of the guitar, they also feel better to me (broken in). If I had to buy one les paul as a keeper, Id recommend finding a Historic Makeovers one (disclaimer: Im not affiliated with them). People send in their Gibson CS LP’s to them, and for several thousand bucks, Historic Makeovers refinish the guitar (with period-correct dyes, reset the neck, replace the east indian rosewood fretboard with Brazilian, etc.). Gibson Custom Shop, even Murphy lab stuff, does not come close to Historic Makeovers IMO. I don’t think it’s worth sending your guitar to Historic Makeovers yourself unless you REALLY like your reissue’s wood/flame/weight and you want to makeover THAT particular guitar. With that said, buying an already finished Historic Makeover (“HM”) one used, is definitely worth it as they go for about the same as an R8/R9 goes for new (without brazilian rosewood, period correct appointments and often times the attention to details) and they’ve been holding their value surprisingly well.

This is mine (originally a 2009 R9 which was redone by Historic Makeovers in 2011 by the original owner as a “Real Deal Series” makeover). It’s pictured below and is also pictured in the first photo at the beginning of this post. It’s the only Gibson les paul that I have kept (going on 3 years now). The dyes that HM used to refinish the guitar with have actually started to fade just like they did on original bursts (under the PG/plastics, the reds are much deeper eventhough it’s “only” been about 10 years).

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Since it’s the only LP I kept, here are the other LP reissues I had that this HM replaced:

Murphy Aged - True Historic 1959 LP (2015) (this one was really nice, perfect in fact, until I fpund the HM LP above… what bothered me was the fact that the board wasn’t Brazilian Rosewood on this one…. cork sniffer stuff I know, but the way a good oily brazilian board looks and feels is unmistakeable).
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2014 R9 (the first one from L&M, didnt keep it cuz it was too heavy and the top only looked good from this angle haha)
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2018 1960 LP Reissue w/ a Brazilian Rosewood board (gloss finish, didnt keep it cuz finish felt too “plastic” like)
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2018 R8 (nothing special, fairly light weight, bought it online and unfortunately the top was kinda ugly to me when I got it in person… very weak flame in the centre 1/3rd of the guitar, almost looked like a three/four-piece top)
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2016 True Historic 1957 Reissue (7.9lb, fat neck, lightest/best of the best sounding LPs Ive ever had… but finish was too “new” / glossy and the board wasn’t brazilian again)
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2017 R9 (liked the top, but got bored of it quite quickly as I bought it almost simultaneously with the R7 above, which was superior to me)
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If I had to do it all over again to find “the one” reissue LP for myself, I’d use the following criteria:

• must be under 8.5lb (under 8lb is a big plus as the reselling an unchambered LP of that weight is very easy)
• must be aged/relic’d, preferably by Historic Makeovers or in house by Gibson (Murphy Lab is not worth it as a standard aged/relic’d LP is the same thing and ML had some QA issues iirc)
• must have a dark board, if you can score one with brazilian rosewood, it’s a big plus (great resale value and feel)
• Best years of issue IMO (from personal experience and spec-wise): 2013, 2014, avoid 2015-2016 (unless it’s a “True Historic” model, make sure it comes with the COA identifying it as such… lots of scammers selling regular R9’s from this period as “True Historics”), 2017-2019 (im sure 2020-now are fine too but may not be worth the premium for being more recent and from my research they don’t offer any “better/more period correct notable specs compared to 2013/2014…. it still seems to me a 15’ True Historic gets the job done in that department apart from the indian rosewood board), any year Historic Makeover LP (make sure the makeover commissioned used brazilian rosewood as in recent years, they started to offer a less-expensive makeover that doesn’t use brazilian rosewood for the board). Note there were a number LP’s in 2001-2003 which had a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard (google it/search for this topic on this forum), but I prefer the limited runs in 2017-2019 that used Brazilian Rosewood as the specs are more historically accurate and you get a COA that actually states that the wood is brazilian.
• top-wise (ie colour, flame, etc) is personal preference but for resale value, I would avoid western maple (ie straight flame / “fake looking”, or quilted maple). Eastern, curly maple or just a basic plaintop would be a better option for resale purposes IMO and “historical correctness”.

Good luck and hope this helps!

Congrats on the first picture, super nice looking! I have two 2015 True Historic LP's - a '59 Bourbon Burst and a '56 Gold Top with P90s. Both are fantastic guitars. I will die with these two. I have always wanted a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard but just never ended up with one until I found a Nik Huber Orca with a Floyd Rose on it. It has it all - single piece maple top, Brazilian Rosewood fretboard and so on. It isn't a Les Paul in terms of comparing it to one and doesn't sound exactly like one but it is in the vibe of one and sounds way better than the Les Paul Axcess.

It is hard to say if I will ever own a LP with a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard but if I ran into the one like your first picture, I just might. They all have their own personality and when you fall in love with playing one it all the sudden doesn't matter that much what it looks like anymore.

 

[THDNUT]

Most dealers have them hung up by the neck in the show room. While it's still on the hanger gently pluck the b string, then pinch the guitar body between your thumb and index finger in the area of the input jack.

If the guitar can't be felt strongly vibrating it's not worth pulling off the hanger.

I just did this test on my 6 Historic Les Pauls, 3 R9s, a CR8, a G0 and a LP Special. None of them passed this test.

I have to disagree with the premise of this "test". If the guitar body is "strongly" vibrating, that means that it is absorbing energy from the B string. The B string will quickly lose it's energy, in other words, it's sustain will decay.

So, if one goes by this test to pick a Les Paul, they will be missing out on some real winners IMO.

YMMV

 

[Thundermtn]

If I remember correctly I first heard of this test is from a pro over at the other place. Not JB.

There's also this guy for what it's worth

Both of mine pass, my first one was chosen without knowing the test. All I could tell then was that it sounded better than any other guitar in the store.

Maybe your hanger is softer than what a music store buys. Idk, I routinely use it and it's been reliable enough that I mostly can tell what guitar will have what i like feel-wise before it's on my lap.

 

[THDNUT]

I used a shoe string in a loop around the top two tuning machines and suspended the guitar in a door way hanging on an eye hook screwed into the header of the door jamb.

I don't use hangers. The guitars are stored in their cases stood up in a closet on a table I made to keep the guitars about 15" off the floor in case a pipe bursts and floods my house when I'm not here.

 

[GuitarTalk]

Congrats on the first picture, super nice looking! I have two 2015 True Historic LP's - a '59 Bourbon Burst and a '56 Gold Top with P90s. Both are fantastic guitars. I will die with these two. I have always wanted a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard but just never ended up with one until I found a Nik Huber Orca with a Floyd Rose on it. It has it all - single piece maple top, Brazilian Rosewood fretboard and so on. It isn't a Les Paul in terms of comparing it to one and doesn't sound exactly like one but it is in the vibe of one and sounds way better than the Les Paul Axcess.

It is hard to say if I will ever own a LP with a Brazilian Rosewood fretboard but if I ran into the one like your first picture, I just might. They all have their own personality and when you fall in love with playing one it all the sudden doesn't matter that much what it looks like anymore.

Nice, I went thru a similar process before finding my first BRW LP. I had these two guitars before an LP. 1) Was purely aquired through a trade; the guitar was too mint / historically important (pre-release modern eagle 1 PRS from 2004, w/ solid quartersawn brazilian neck and fretboard. Let it go as I wasn’t playing it and it didn’t make sense to have $10k guitar if you’re not playing it. 2) Santana PRS with BRW board and pickups that sounded like 57 classics. Great guitar as well, sounded and felt great but…. had a wolf note, a bad one and a pretty bad dead note ( most noticeable on G6 on the G string). Wouldn’t go away no matter the setup and only was reduced when I added A LOT of weight to the headstock (apparently this is a somewhat of a common issue on PRS’s from <2006).

 

[Shelkonnery]

I just did this test on my 6 Historic Les Pauls, 3 R9s, a CR8, a G0 and a LP Special. None of them passed this test.

I have to disagree with the premise of this "test". If the guitar body is "strongly" vibrating, that means that it is absorbing energy from the B string. The B string will quickly lose it's energy, in other words, it's sustain will decay.

So, if one goes by this test to pick a Les Paul, they will be missing out on some real winners IMO.

YMMV

You would think plugging it in and playing would be the ultimate test.

I understand resonance and how it sounds unplugged are great hints of how it will respond when you plug it in, but I play my guitars plugged in most of the time. How they sound when I play them unplugged on the couch while watching TV isn't important.

I mean no disrespect, but most of these checklists make more sense for collectors and picky forum members than for active musicians. A light weight resonant guitar that sounds overly bright or spongy when plugged in is of no use for me personally.

 

[GuitarTalk]

You would think plugging it in and playing would be the ultimate test.

I understand resonance and how it sounds unplugged are great hints of how it will respond when you plug it in, but I play my guitars plugged in most of the time. How they sound when I play them unplugged on the couch while watching TV isn't important.

I mean no disrespect, but most of these checklists make more sense for collectors and picky forum members than for active musicians. A light weight resonant guitar that sounds overly bright or spongy when plugged in is of no use for me personally.

You are absolutely right. EDIT: and also, none of those “tests” matter before the guitar is properly setup. Half the time a shitty sustain /resonance is from a poor cut nut, loose truss rod, issues at the bridge, poor fretwork, etc.

 

[mjross]

My advice when buying Historics, bring money, lots of money!

 

[01GT Eibach]

Players vs collectors.

Yeah, very well and succinctly said ... really. For me, I am definitely falling into the 'player' side, though; I just want a couple of really nice but different Les Pauls (among some other guitars too) that play amazingly well to just rip on, inspire me, and be admired. That being said, I think the 'collectors' are super cool. I love seeing their guitars and hearing their thoughts about their purchases and which ones they kept and/or moved on from.

 

[mjross]

Yeah, very well and succinctly said ... really. For me, I am definitely falling into the 'player' side, though; I just want a couple of really nice but different Les Pauls (among some other guitars too) that play amazingly well to just rip on, inspire me, and be admired. That being said, I think the 'collectors' are super cool. I love seeing their guitars and hearing their thoughts about their purchases and which ones they kept and/or moved on from.

Nothing wrong with collecting or playing! I’ve been at both ends. To each their own, works both ways. Oh yeah, you can do both!

 

[gtr-tek]

My 2013 R0 sat in the store for many months before I pulled the trigger. It sat there calling to me and bugging me until I finally gave in and played it. Once I did that, it was all over... Within a week, I made a trade and got it. I took these pics with my phone on my workbench when I was cleaning it up and putting my favorite strings on it. The top is very 3-D and the flame sometimes hides a bit when tipped a certain way in the light. I think some of the lookers thought it was a plain top and weren't interested. Their loss. This was not an impulse purchase. It has all the paperwork and the pickguard is in the case. I recommend getting your hands on one if possible and play it through a good amp. All it needed was a setup with my strings.

I did replace the bridge with a Callaham as the saddles don't fall out and Faber studs that lock and space the tailpiece for the preferable break angle. The original ABR-1 is in the case in a ziplock so the saddles don't get lost as are the studs.

These are truly amazing instruments and I recommend them highly. I have high end custom shop Washburn, Hamer and PRS (not Private Stock) guitars and this stacks up with all of them. I have several other Les Pauls that are standard release and Norlin era. This is far nicer than any of them.

 

[Brek]

I have a '60 neck that will pass the stiffness test so it's not just a size qwerk.

Neck size is one of the most important aspects of choosing. Maybe the most important metric there is. If you don't like the neck you're not going to bond with the guitar.

R8 necks from '08 were usually so big that I almost immediately hung them all back up. My '16 R8 feels like I was there in the shop test fitting it. So just choosing a profile and ordering one can get someone close, but being there in person is always going to be instant feedback and you'll know if it's right for you or not.

I just tried this with all my guitars the low e dropped on all following the thickness of the neck in amount i.e '58 -6 centa dropped less than 60 v2 -12 cents, interestingly the one that dropped the least was my 2020 epiphone gold top with 50's neck -4 cents.

 

[tdarian]

I recently picked up a 2021 R9 from Mark Bishop at Mark’s Guitar Loft. His descriptions of tone and feel elements were spot on, very detailed photos on his site. I’d heard from others that his descriptions were very trustworthy and I’m glad I had the confidence to proceed. This one sounds as described and is exactly what I was looking for