A teacher's view

[coldsteal2]

A lot easier done than deportation.

The biggest myth, IMO, is that there's a simple solution.

deportation is easy, rounding them up is the problem

 

[PraXis]

No need to deport by force. Ask the citizens to donate to buy a bunch of one-way bus tickets to San Francisco.

 

[River]

<snip>So what is your problem with securing our borders?

Nothing, save that it's no panacea. Seal it as tight as you like, the problems will continue virtually unabated. And it will cost BIG BUCKS to accomplish. BIG BUCKS that will come from our taxes, the taxes that many of the same people who want the border sealed swear they will NOT pay.

That problem doesn't exist here in South Texas. There are NO illegal immigrants hanging around in front of the Lowe's or the Home Depot. The police in my city don't allow it. Maybe you should elect new officials who will do their job.<snip>

No, maybe KP should. That's his scenario description, not mine. My County Sheriff does his job, and I'm not in a border state, much less county.

Agreed on all the above, but we still need to seal the border, without that everything else is losing battle and irrelevent.....<snip>

No, you could have an open border and no incentive to cross it - problem(s) solved. A sealed border (an impossibility) was rendered ineffectual by the Wright Brothers and, before that, the invention of the boat.

 

[Caleb]

A sealed border (an impossibility) was rendered ineffectual by the Wright Brothers and, before that, the invention of the boat.

And before that, the invention of the shovel.

 

[coldsteal2]

OTM's US Border Security Threat part 1

US Border Security Threat part 2

.

 

[River]

And I still say that most of the violent crime problems are drug related. Yeah, there's the whole "leeches on the economy and social services" thing, but what about that violent crime problem? Doesn't anyone want to discuss that?

Even in periods where the illegal immigration problems were superfluous, the drugs just kept pouring in, and violent crime with them. How far do we stick our heads into the sand before we gag, choke, and die?

 

[MineGoesTo11]

Why do we even have a country? Why not just have a region where people can come and go as they please, from anywhere on earth?

Isn't that the libertarian utopian wet dream, ultimate individual freedom?

 

[River]

And before that, the invention of the shovel.

 

[Ed Zeppeli]

Huh???

I live in the city where the London Tube/bus bombers got the train to London from, I live 10 miles away from one of the biggest Asian communities in the UK. Not far from my house are (beautiful) Mosques. The kids I went to school with were Afro-Caribbean, Indian, Pakastani, Chinese, a few Bangladeshi's.

Also, the Polish community in my city has increased in the past few years. Very nice people, very good food too.

I am happy to live in a varied multi-cultural community.

It's the English born and bred white wankers that scrounge more social care than any of the others put together times a 1000 that piss me off.

They are this countries problem, not the ethnic immigrants. The lazy white trash are the biggest social hand out scrounging fuckwits and bleed this country dry.

Then the dumb Sun reading dickwads vote BNP

Whose point are you making again?

 

[KP]

<snip>

No, maybe KP should. That's his scenario description, not mine. My County Sheriff does his job, and I'm not in a border state, much less county.

</snip>

You know that is rather amusing. I was at Home Depot earlier today and saw a group of about 8 "workers" in their normal place. Then up drove a tricked out Escalade and the driver locked up and joined the group. I would be so easy for INS to drop by or the Sheriffs. The only problem is we have so many Russians, Ukrainians and assorted "refugees" that the county is talking about letting 240 deputies go, because we need to support all of the newly arrived welfare cases. That will mean no patrols and no investigations of misdemeanors. I need to start the process for a CCW permit.

 

[PraXis]

Isn't that the libertarian utopian wet dream, ultimate individual freedom?

No. A libertarian utopia means limited government, not an open-borders f*cking nanny state like the UK. Anything not in the Constitution goes to the states.

Individual liberty = your body, your choice (as long as your choice does not harm another person).

Personal responsibility = leave us alone, federal government.

States' rights.

If your state wants to become a liberal utopia (CA, NJ, MI, etc), then go ahead and enjoy your mini-Greece destruction. If your state wants to eliminate corporate taxes, personal income taxes, and raise revenue with common sense, then I'm moving there!

Look at EVERY lib state or country. They are ALL bankrupt.

As for our borders, we spend too much damn money on our military overseas. Bring our boys home and line them up on the borders. Other countries want to trade with us? Great! Meddling in others' affairs? No. You still manage to attack us, we OBLITERATE YOU OUT OF EXISTENCE.

 

[coldsteal2]

And I still say that most of the violent crime problems are drug related. Yeah, there's the whole "leeches on the economy and social services" thing, but what about that violent crime problem? Doesn't anyone want to discuss that?

Even in periods where the illegal immigration problems were superfluous, the drugs just kept pouring in, and violent crime with it. How far do we stick our heads into the sand before we gag, choke, and die?

My sister is the head Juvenile/Probation officer
for Glenn County in Nor California.
She said that almost 3/4's of the kids she has
are the children of or are themselves Illegals.
Being Minors thier hands are tied as far as imigration
status. They arent just illegals from Mexico either
there are illegals from El Salvador, Nicaragua,
Vietnam, Laos, and India how they are all getting up
here is a mystery, although northern Cal has the largest
Rice farms in America so alot of the Asians are related
to the rice farming. Some of the kids get in trouble
just so they have a roof over thier head and three meals.

 

[KSG_Standard]

Isn't that the libertarian utopian wet dream, ultimate individual freedom?

No, it's the PROGRESSIVE Utopian wet dream. A land of people with no common culture, no common language, no tradition...who get free services, free housing, free food, free health care, free schooling all paid for by taxes on the EVIL RICH and they get Union jobs in the SEIU. It sucks that we're living the dream now. I call it Obamunism.

 

[River]

<snip>Look at EVERY lib state or country. They are ALL bankrupt.<snip>

"Lib" = liberal or libertarian?

Either way, they are not ALL bankrupt. Love ya, Pwozzie, but you're full of shit on that one.

 

[MineGoesTo11]

Yeah, there's the whole "leeches on the economy and social services" thing, but what about that violent crime problem? Doesn't anyone want to discuss that?

Even in periods where the illegal immigration problems were superfluous, the drugs just kept pouring in, and violent crime with it. How far do we stick our heads into the sand before we gag, choke, and die?

I find the violence from drug trade more convincing than anything else. The "leeches on the economy and social services" is the Mexican adaptation of the following hyperbole;

"She has eighty names, thirty addresses, twelve Social Security cards and is collecting veteran's benefits on four non-existing deceased husbands. And she is collecting Social Security on her cards. She's got Medicaid, getting food stamps, and she is collecting welfare under each of her names. Her tax-free cash income is over $150,000."

The Welfare Queen pejorative and its variants has been a favorite for scapegoating the ills of American society ever since Reagan drummed it up.

If there are Mexican immigrants gaming the system, then I'd wager the proportion to hard working Mexican immigrants is probably not much different from other demographics. It's bumper sticker rhetoric.

 

[KP]

"Lib" = liberal or libertarian?

Either way, they are not ALL bankrupt. Love ya, Pwozzie, but you're full of shit on that one.

California is not bankrupt yet; but, we have a $20 billion shortfall just for this year.

 

[CenCalPlayer]

Nothing, save that it's no panacea. Seal it as tight as you like, the problems will continue virtually unabated. And it will cost BIG BUCKS to accomplish. BIG BUCKS that will come from our taxes, the taxes that many of the same people who want the border sealed swear they will NOT pay.


No, maybe KP should. That's his scenario description, not mine. My County Sheriff does his job, and I'm not in a border state, much less county.


No, you could have an open border and no incentive to cross it - problem(s) solved. A sealed border (an impossibility) was rendered ineffectual by the Wright Brothers and, before that, the invention of the boat.

So you don't think we could close down the border if we moved our military and/or National Guards down there? Sorry, but you're wrong about that. Just the military's presence is going to stop a good chunkc of illegals from even trying to cross over. Oh, and since the military is already getting paid, fed, etc. by the tax payers it doesn't really cost any more in taxes than is already being spent on them to have them stationed on the border as opposed to somewhere else.......we have been using the solutions you espouse for years and guess what? They don't flippin work!! So why not try sealing our southern border? It might just work, but we will never know if we don't try....your solutions aren't working to well so why not try something new? Really isn't going to cost too much to try either....just need the balls to pull the trigger (excuse the pun).

 

[MineGoesTo11]

No, it's the PROGRESSIVE Utopian wet dream. A land of people with no common culture, no common language, no tradition...who get free services, free housing, free food, free health care, free schooling all paid for by taxes on the EVIL RICH and they get Union jobs in the SEIU. It sucks that we're living the dream now. I call it Obamunism.

Thanks for clearing that up, but where does Slash fit in to that?

 

[PraXis]

"Lib" = liberal or libertarian?

Either way, they are not ALL bankrupt. Love ya, Pwozzie, but you're full of shit on that one.

Lib = liberal for future reference. I get so angry typing it I shorten it.

Why am I full of it? The most bankrupt states are the ones with problems with funding education and pensions (for example).

UK, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Germany (thanks to the bailout), France.. they all are going broke.

Poland is actually doing well (yay!).

"With low inflation, low government spending, stable economic growth and a pro-free market government in place, Poland today houses one of the strongest EU economies. ... See MoreSince 1990, the country has progressively moved toward free market structures, and as one of the leading capitalist economies in the world today, is expected to continue positive economic growth in 2010 and 2011."

Poland's Economy Is Thriving As Europe's Most Capitalist Country

My mom and I are looking for property there to be closer to our family during the year (cheap to build a house!).

Poland was the only country not negatively impacted by the global economic downturn. Unfortunately, the Euro is going to F it all up.

I remember what it was like visiting Poland in the late 80s and early 90s. It SUCKED. Everyone was miserable. There was nothing but farms, and the cities were overcrowded. I went back in the mid 90s and noticed more of a suburban atmosphere, malls here and there, restaurants and developments I've never seen before.. then I went most recently in 2007 and WOW! The quality of life has TREMENDOUSLY improved in Poland.

We give props to Ronaldus Magnus for helping end Communism that nearly destroyed the country (infected from those damn Ruskies!).

 

[KP]

The Euro is what f'ed up Germany.