A Question on Tone

[Blue Blood]

Hahahahahahaha

 

[korus]

No, it's a statement of fact: if you can neither demonstrate an effect nor provide a coherent physical explanation for what is supposedly causing it, then nobody is obliged to take your ideas seriously.



Me D-K? Too funny. Keep digging...

Sure I will, no need for invitation, as it is a proper challenge, esp since manifestations of at least 2 or even 3 'things' (LOL) overlap. You had to become your own ..., no one would bother with 2 or 3 in 1, right?

You know how this works, you need 'demonstration of an effect' cause you did not hear it in all the links I already posted, which proves you are not able to. And you are asking for 'coherent physical explanation' no one was able to provide for 50 years already.

But, keep on, it is entertaining.

 

[bulletproof]

Sure I will, no need for invitation, as it is a proper challenge, esp since manifestations of at least 2 or even 3 'things' (LOL) overlap. You had to become your own ..., no one would bother with 2 or 3 in 1, right?

You know how this works, you need 'demonstration of an effect' cause you did not hear it in all the links I already posted, which proves you are not able to. And you are asking for 'coherent physical explanation' no one was able to provide for 50 years already.

But, keep on, it is entertaining.

C’mon man, that’s it. If y’all want to pursue this further, I suggest a new thread in the Tone Freaks section....

 

[BBD]

You know how this works

Indeed I do.

you need 'demonstration of an effect' cause you did not hear it in all the links I already posted, which proves you are not able to.

It 'proves' nothing of the sort. The invalidation problems with the disparate recordings you presented have already been pointed out. If you don't understand this, you should avoid throwing terms like D-K around. I hope this doesn't need repeating.

And you are asking for 'coherent physical explanation' no one was able to provide for 50 years already.

The parsimonious explanation for that is that the phenomenon is imaginary.

 

[BBD]

C’mon man, that’s it. If y’all want to pursue this further, I suggest a new thread in the Tone Freaks section....

I agree. This nonsense has gone on long enough. Why do you keep 'liking' korus's crap btw?

 

[Crotch]

This argument might be fun to continue if the utter arrogance of I'm better of you did not stink the place out.

 

[bulletproof]

I agree. This nonsense has gone on long enough. Why do you keep 'liking' korus's crap btw?

Its pretty much due to the fact that I’m hard up for entertainment,brother

 

[BBD]

Its pretty much due to the fact that I’m hard up for entertainment,brother

You must be effin' desperate

 

[bulletproof]

You must be effin' desperate

Naww,brother.....after so many years in here(I originally joined in ‘07),it’s fun to see the same arguments,just from a different angle ,y know?

Edit: forgot to add, in all seriousness though,one just never knows what’s going to happen. And as a plus, I was looking forward to Jon playing his gear.

 

[korus]

The parsimonious explanation for that is that the phenomenon is imaginary.

You are so addicted to being high on your ego that you do not realize you are publicly contradicting last 50 years in history of electric guitar based music. You do not hear the difference cause you hear nothing above certain frequency, so what? At least 85-90% of humans is exactly like you, but they do not write nonsense on a public forum. There is no way a grownup person would make a fool of himself publicly for such a laughable reason. Failing to notice you've just did that, or deliberately doing it, is a huge disorder alert, esp given the above than average IQ.

I just hope you will get help eventually. All the best.

 

[BBD]

There is an interesting discussion to be had here, parallel to the one readers of the later pages of the thread have been forced to endure. There's been some mention of Occam's Razor and parsimonious explanation, so maybe a good place to start would be Bertrand Russell's paraphrase of Occam: "Whenever possible, substitute constructions out of known entities for inferences to unknown entities."

WTF? I hear you say. Well, what if there really *is* a vintage tonez? How could an olde Stratte and an olde Gibsonne sound somehow, well, *old* compared to new production? What constructions from known entities have we got to play with?

Lots of different woods, different build types, different pickups and electronics. But. What if the unifying factor is the way pickups age? Specifically decades of coil aging and maybe slowly degaussing magnets? Could a broadly similar ageing process affecting all pickups over decades produce broadly similar tonal changes? And could korus's Bat Senses detect these changes?

I'd very tentatively suggest a 'yes' to both elements of this hypothesis.

But of course, this leaves the argument that there was something unique about original production in inferences to unknown entities territory.

 

[BBD]

You are so addicted to being high on your ego that you do not realize you are publicly contradicting last 50 years in history of electric guitar based music. You do not hear the difference cause you hear nothing above certain frequency, so what? At least 85-90% of humans is exactly like you, but they do not write nonsense on a public forum. There is no way a grownup person would make a fool of himself publicly for such a laughable reason. Failing to notice you've just did that, or deliberately doing it, is a huge disorder alert, esp given the above than average IQ.

I just hope you will get help eventually. All the best.

I think doubling down from serially specious arguments to online psychiatric diagnosis is a bad idea, korus.

 

[korus]

There is an interesting discussion to be had here, parallel to the one readers of the later pages of the thread have been forced to endure. There's been some mention of Occam's Razor and parsimonious explanation, so maybe a good place to start would be Bertrand Russell's paraphrase of Occam: "Whenever possible, substitute constructions out of known entities for inferences to unknown entities."

WTF? I hear you say. Well, what if there really *is* a vintage tonez? How could an olde Stratte and an olde Gibsonne sound somehow, well, *old* compared to new production? What constructions from known entities have we got to play with?

Lots of different woods, different build types, different pickups and electronics. But. What if the unifying factor is the way pickups age? Specifically decades of coil aging and maybe slowly degaussing magnets? Could a broadly similar ageing process affecting all pickups over decades produce broadly similar tonal changes? And could korus's Bat Senses detect these changes?

I'd very tentatively suggest a 'yes' to all three elements of this hypothesis.

But of course, this leaves the argument that there was something unique about original production in inferences to unknown entities territory.

Original pickups have been installed in modern builds. They do sound a bit mellower than best modern PAF repros, but nothing to write home about. And it is mostly due to softer metals used, and lesser tension and specific (so called) scatter winding pattern, but that has already been examined and replicated. So, now or as of last 5-7 years, the difference original PAFs vs replica PAFs is really minimal. Metal under isolation does not age. Coil is either functioning or broken, cut. Magnets do not lose even 1% of their charge for decades, unless deliberately demagnetized.

There is a fascination with pickups ever since they first appeared. They must have looked like a state of the art tech miracle back in early '50s. Even we are 70 years past the invention of pickup, that fascination somehow still manages to mask the fact that every single guitar is 'acoustic' by the very design and the laws of mechanics - by which the tone is shaped on every guitar - are one and the same.

 

[jlb32]

So, I claim no Les Paul model guitar made by Gibson or anyone else after they've stopped making originals in 1960 does not have the timbre of originals, does not have the tone that can be mistaken for stock originals.

"Claim" is the best word you have used so far in this thread. You offer zero data, factual proof, absolutely nothing other than "your opinion" that you like to state as "fact".

 

[BBD]

Metal under isolation does not age. Coil is either functioning or broken, cut. Magnets do not lose even 1% of their charge for decades, unless deliberately demagnetized.

Well, we're back to an imaginary phenomenon then.

Even we are 70 years past the invention of pickup, that fascination somehow still manages to mask the fact that every single guitar is 'acoustic' by the very design and the laws of mechanics - by which the tone is shaped on every guitar - are one and the same.

But with timber from different species of tree in play, along with different construction methods (eg set neck vs bolt-on; cap body vs no cap etc) and different pickup types, the variability arising from the interplay of mechanical interactions should not give rise to a consistent - and therefore recognisable - 'vintage tone'. As I said, the scientifically parsimonious explanation is that non such exists. I refer you to @jlb32, above. And Occam, of course.

 

[bulletproof]

 

[Blue Blood]

 

[BBD]

Beating a dead horse tenderises the meat. Horse can be tough.

 

[bulletproof]

Beating a dead horse tenderises the meat. Horse can be tough.

View attachment 302259

 

[freebyrd 69]

You are so addicted to being high on your ego that you do not realize you are publicly contradicting last 50 years in history of electric guitar based music. You do not hear the difference cause you hear nothing above certain frequency, so what? At least 85-90% of humans is exactly like you, but they do not write nonsense on a public forum. There is no way a grownup person would make a fool of himself publicly for such a laughable reason. Failing to notice you've just did that, or deliberately doing it, is a huge disorder alert, esp given the above than average IQ.

I just hope you will get help eventually. All the best.

I think I stumbled on Korus's 3rd grade picture.