A Question, On spalted Maple

[Hazboticus]

Exciting times!

I know I said to Barnaby that I would move onto making hand builds but I wanted to get one more practice run in before I got my hands dirty. Also as I am collecting tools as I go I'm not quite there yet .

Anyway - Question for the experts or anyone with experience, I have an LP body with a spalted maple vaneer (one of those .3mm types) that I would very much like to stain to a subtle red/Mahogany colour.

I have only worked with Feast watson Spirit based stains and Water based Aniline Dyes and I have a subtle feeling that anything water based will either completely fail to penetrate the wood or soak in unevenly as well as not soak in at all in certain areas (mainly a small crack that has been stabilized with what looks like epoxy)

Has anyone had experiences with spalted wood and staining and if so could you recommend a type of stain/dye that would work best?

I am quite spray averse as they are expensive and hard to locate in Australia so I am hoping there is some sort of solution I can find that might allow me to achieve what I'm after without having to resort to tinted nitro

thanks for any help

P.S. Ill try and snap some photos of it when I get back to my camera to give a better impression.

 

[Murkar]

I do not have experience staining spalted wood (steered away from it when I did my spalted maple build) but I would suspect it would not turn out too well.

Spalted wood is inconsistent in density, the soft parts will absorb the stain more readily than the hard parts. So it would look patchy. I would suspect even properly stabilized spalted woods would end up staining very unevenly.

IMO your best bet would be to bite the bullet and use tinted nitro over top of a clear coat.

 

[EagleOnyx]

you can use shellac tinted with the same aniline dye you already have. you can use a cheap spray gun and a cheap compressor to run it and spray the shellac on. The guns I use were less than $15 US each and they work just fine. If you are planning on doing more than 2 guitars then the investment will be worth it. Rattle cans of nitro and stuff add up fast when you do entire guitars.

My compressor wasn't expensive, I think it's a 15 gallon cheapie from a home improvement store.

That area that was reinforced will cause you color problems if you try to stain the color on. it will not take a stain there and might prevent stain from adhering a little further away due to whatever they used to reinforce the spalted part. I've stopped hand staining my colors partially because of that.

 

[Hazboticus]

you can use shellac tinted with the same aniline dye you already have. you can use a cheap spray gun and a cheap compressor to run it and spray the shellac on. The guns I use were less than $15 US each and they work just fine. If you are planning on doing more than 2 guitars then the investment will be worth it. Rattle cans of nitro and stuff add up fast when you do entire guitars.

My compressor wasn't expensive, I think it's a 15 gallon cheapie from a home improvement store.

That area that was reinforced will cause you color problems if you try to stain the color on. it will not take a stain there and might prevent stain from adhering a little further away due to whatever they used to reinforce the spalted part. I've stopped hand staining my colors partially because of that.

Interesting - Im not sure my aniline dye would take in the shellac as it is specifically water soluble (I have tried using Denatured alcohol to no avail) but I could still give it a go on a test piece.

Ill have a look around for some cheap(ish) spray equipment, i don't have a compressor and my limited space really screws me over for buying one but since the spalt is only on the guitar top I could always use a rattlecan just for the top then finish the rest of the guitar normally but that introduces the problem of poly/Nitro finish compatibility.

On a different tact - anyone think it could work to tint the poly and wipe it on as usual? I could try mixing some aniline powder with some wipe on poly and just wiping it on as a coat then building over it with clear. Or likewise I guess I could just use a tinted poly spray to keep my compatibility working.... haha guitar finishing is so intense >.<

I think my two favourite parts of guitar building are scraping binding and electronics, cause I dont suck at those

 

[EagleOnyx]

It might be very difficult to get a good even color if you wipe it on.

my powdered aniline dye is soluble in alcohol I think... that's weird that yours isn't. I'll have to test it again I guess.

 

[Hazboticus]

It might be very difficult to get a good even color if you wipe it on.

my powdered aniline dye is soluble in alcohol I think... that's weird that yours isn't. I'll have to test it again I guess.

I got mine from LMII and they specifically have two types one for water and one for alcohol.

Ill definitely give it a go, no harm in wasting a little dye for science!

 

[Hazboticus]

OOO this might work;

http://www.minwax.com/wood-products/onestep-stain-finishes/minwax-polyshades

as I use poly as my clear this will interact with it perfectly (same company even).

I know a lot of people dont like poly but for me its good no spray, have used it before with good results

 

[EagleOnyx]

Ah now I remember. Mine is from there also and is the alcohol version.

 

[D. Spree]

I would use nitrocellulose and then spray 3 coats of clear before using color coats - this method is used by Benedetto in his archtop build book. The clear prevents uneven color in the wood and allows you to remove color coats you don't like. I have had great success with this - 3 clear, then the color coats and then clear again for the finish.

 

[j.six]

I'd also suggest not dyeing the wood directly; shoot your color mixed in with clear (over a sealed surface) for more even results.

Sully

 

[Hazboticus]

I'd also suggest not dyeing the wood directly; shoot your color mixed in with clear (over a sealed surface) for more even results.

Sully

Thanks for the advice Sully (love your work).

I did a bit of testing and it looks like I was wrong about how the wood accepts stain.

When color testing I like to test on a small section of the instrument itself to check brightness/tone whatever and since the spalt I am working with is minimal and a pretty thin vaneer - it just soaks in pretty evenly, although only spirit based are usable so I cant use any of my nice LMI water based Dyes.

I am tracking the progress over here in case anyone wants to see how it turns out;

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/luthiers-corner/226977-spalted-iced-tea-burst.html

 

[lee1964]

Hi where abouts in Sydney are you? You can find places that custom pack rattle cans you can mix the Feast Watson dyes into the lacquer and have them load you cans for you, IT works fine I had to do it a few years back when My compressor Shagged itself

I know a few places on the South/south west side that pack cans

Ace or Kennys or whatever they are called now in Bankstown

Phoenix in Revesby

Maybe SAPE almost next door to Ace/kennys

Auto Pro in Mittagong

Ace and Phoenix can also supply Nitro which incidently can be custom packed into cans but standard Acrylic laquer is fine too

another option is Preval sprays, kennys used to sell these also

or have a drive down to Bowral and I can show you how to spray the tints, then you can just go home and spray the top coats with duplicolour rattle can clears or similar

Lee

 

[Hazboticus]

Hi where abouts in Sydney are you? You can find places that custom pack rattle cans you can mix the Feast Watson dyes into the lacquer and have them load you cans for you, IT works fine I had to do it a few years back when My compressor Shagged itself

I know a few places on the South/south west side that pack cans

Ace or Kennys or whatever they are called now in Bankstown

Phoenix in Revesby

Maybe SAPE almost next door to Ace/kennys

Auto Pro in Mittagong

Ace and Phoenix can also supply Nitro which incidently can be custom packed into cans but standard Acrylic laquer is fine too

another option is Preval sprays, kennys used to sell these also

or have a drive down to Bowral and I can show you how to spray the tints, then you can just go home and spray the top coats with duplicolour rattle can clears or similar

Lee

Wow thanks for the insights dude! I am really not a huge fan of spray but this job might require it. Those preval units look ideal for what I am doing although its an entire new can of worms to try out and I kinda want to burn through my current supplies first

I will give doing it by rub on a go and if it fails I will sand it back and re-do it with tint, not ideal but I am keen do at least one more completely by rub on application as I quite enjoy it. I dint even think about packing spray cans with tint >.<

 

[Hazboticus]

double post