A pickup journey and Monty's pickups: I'm done!

[switch1]

For the last two years I've been trying to find my holy grail pickups (and hopefully PAF clones!) for my Les Paul.

I've been through a lot of hardware changes on my 1995 birdseye Les Paul Standard (the guitar on my avatar), right now I've settled to Pigtail studs/bushings/abr-1/tailpiece (and still struggling on the pot selection..!) It is still my no1 guitar, no matter the price it plays and sounds fantastically: I'm on the market for a perfectly vintage specd Historic 59 and after trying about 5-6 of them I've still haven't found one that rivals my 95's clarity and articulation.

Here is some info on my tonal journey (keep in mind that every guitar is a different guitar and everyone has a different taste)

First had a Lindy Fralin P-92 on the neck and WRC Goodwood bridge. This set served me well for many years: Neck position was clear and had a single coil twang on the bass strings and the bridge was bold and clear. Definitely not close to the traditional PAF sound but a nice combo.

Then I went on and tried some OX4's. Very nice pickups, more sizzle and PAF-like tone. One problem I've experienced was a muddy (for my taste!) neck pickup. The pups had A4 magnets and sounded a bit honky to me.

Then the Electric City 59's came in. An underwound neck and a normal bridge, potted: A4 neck and A2 bridge. Also a great set, still the neck pup was honky. I've tried something: replace the A4 with an A3 and voila: clear as a bell! What I did lose with the A3 was the attack when distorted.

For a short period of time I've installed a Seymour Duncan Slash set and those were great too. Very controlled, smooth and even sounding, close to a "studio mastered" Les Paul tone, great for OD tones. I really wanted a set with the classic look (covers) that sounds a bit more traditional but if I had another Les Paul I would gladly leave these on.

Then Ive decided to try one of the pickups I've been reading all these years: The Tom Holmes standard A2 set. Well these are trully special. Fat without being muddy, blooming and bold low-mids and a great open top. What I've noticed is that the standard set felt really hot: lots of output. Also the set I got was potted so it felt a bit "not so alive" as the other unpotted pickups.

Then I went back again at OX4, this time an A4 bridge and A3 neck. Still great, still a bit underwhelmed from the neck pickup: I prefer stringier wound strings, these were almost too fat for me(someone would definitely love them, I am sure)

My last journey was the Monty's PAFs. Made in London, A5 neck, A2 bridge, with some king of wax treatment on the metal parts of the pickup but the coils competely un-waxed (this fights microphonics when in high gain). Now to these ears and hands this is an amazing set. Straight ahead my guitar has that sizzle but also the unbelievable woody sound I've been dreaming all these years. This is the closest I've ever managed to approach the 60's Les Pauls that I've played. The neck pickup has great midrange but with very clear bass and a great attack and the bridge pickup is pure Jimi Page/Gary Moore sizzle, all I ever wanted from a classic Les Paul is there in spades. They clean up great, feedback is effortless and the pickups scream "alive" to me.

These is my pickup journey so far, I am in a very happy state with Monty's and I think that I am done

 

[Jymbopalyse]

Thanks for posting.
I'm just beginning my pup journey.

So many pickups . . . . . .

 

[scovell001]

Switch 1,

Thanks for the 'great' story on your tone search it certainly is a journey.

Its really interesting you bombed on the Tom Holmes set, I would have said those would've been right up there (although the ones you tried were potted).

There's a few things I was gonna mention.

1) - I have a contact here (in the UK) who has a 58 les paul & in his words 'Matt Gleeson reputedly makes the best british pafs'. I've heard them in person through a cranked 5e3 style amp & I have to say there is something 'very addictive' about them. I met Matt last year & am currently in contact with him about paf's for another guitar. The A2 in the bridge is absolutely spot on for a LP - for my personal tastes though, I thought the neck was a little bit too 'cutting' which would be down to the A5 I would imagine.

2) - I probably speak for quite a few here when I mention that with these modern Les Pauls us as players are trying to do a certain thing. A - we're trying to 'fix' inherent issues that are just part & parcel of our guitars manufacture ie a muddy neck (or in my case) an overly bright bridge. We are then B - trying to get a sound we have in our head/heard recorded to come out of our particular amp/guitar combination - this leads to a 'moving target' situation & trying to 'hit the target' as you have managed to do in this case can be a long, expensive journey.

3) - There's a great guitar & bass magazine article here http://www.guitar-bass.net/features/gibson-minnesota/ that talks about the creation of the CC 39 Minesnesota - near the bottom of the article it states 'The Custom Buckers clean up without losing clarity, but you can’t get them to do woody jazziness, jangle or a ‘Tele on steroids’ trick.

I think there are a number of players on this & the other LP forum who are tone searching & they maybe purely playing their LP through a cranked amp, be it a Marshall or whatever & are looking for a very muscular overdriven sound. Its only when you turn the gain down & try & play jazz chords (even if you hate jazz) that you start to hear that note bloom & rich harmonic as if the note hangs in the air with a three dimensional richness. Its this, coupled with the ability to then turn the guitar back up & in the middle position you achieve a slightly out of phase, almost 'fuzzy' sound such as this video with Phil Harris & a 1958 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHnuisbPLso

That to me epitomises a PAF pickup, the ability to do all things well.

 

[AJK1]

For the last two years I've been trying to find my holy grail pickups (and hopefully PAF clones!) for my Les Paul.

I've been through a lot of hardware changes on my 1995 birdseye Les Paul Standard (the guitar on my avatar), right now I've settled to Pigtail studs/bushings/abr-1/tailpiece (and still struggling on the pot selection..!) It is still my no1 guitar, no matter the price it plays and sounds fantastically: I'm on the market for a perfectly vintage specd Historic 59 and after trying about 5-6 of them I've still haven't found one that rivals my 95's clarity and articulation.

Here is some info on my tonal journey (keep in mind that every guitar is a different guitar and everyone has a different taste)

First had a Lindy Fralin P-92 on the neck and WRC Goodwood bridge. This set served me well for many years: Neck position was clear and had a single coil twang on the bass strings and the bridge was bold and clear. Definitely not close to the traditional PAF sound but a nice combo.

Then I went on and tried some OX4's. Very nice pickups, more sizzle and PAF-like tone. One problem I've experienced was a muddy (for my taste!) neck pickup. The pups had A4 magnets and sounded a bit honky to me.

Then the Electric City 59's came in. An underwound neck and a normal bridge, potted: A4 neck and A2 bridge. Also a great set, still the neck pup was honky. I've tried something: replace the A4 with an A3 and voila: clear as a bell! What I did lose with the A3 was the attack when distorted.

For a short period of time I've installed a Seymour Duncan Slash set and those were great too. Very controlled, smooth and even sounding, close to a "studio mastered" Les Paul tone, great for OD tones. I really wanted a set with the classic look (covers) that sounds a bit more traditional but if I had another Les Paul I would gladly leave these on.

Then Ive decided to try one of the pickups I've been reading all these years: The Tom Holmes standard A2 set. Well these are trully special. Fat without being muddy, blooming and bold low-mids and a great open top. What I've noticed is that the standard set felt really hot: lots of output. Also the set I got was potted so it felt a bit "not so alive" as the other unpotted pickups.

Then I went back again at OX4, this time an A4 bridge and A3 neck. Still great, still a bit underwhelmed from the neck pickup: I prefer stringier wound strings, these were almost too fat for me(someone would definitely love them, I am sure)

My last journey was the Monty's PAFs. Made in London, A5 neck, A2 bridge, with some king of wax treatment on the metal parts of the pickup but the coils competely un-waxed (this fights microphonics when in high gain). Now to these ears and hands this is an amazing set. Straight ahead my guitar has that sizzle but also the unbelievable woody sound I've been dreaming all these years. This is the closest I've ever managed to approach the 60's Les Pauls that I've played. The neck pickup has great midrange but with very clear bass and a great attack and the bridge pickup is pure Jimi Page/Gary Moore sizzle, all I ever wanted from a classic Les Paul is there in spades. They clean up great, feedback is effortless and the pickups scream "alive" to me.

These is my pickup journey so far, I am in a very happy state with Monty's and I think that I am done

I bet your not done....

 

[switch1]

Switch 1,

Thanks for the 'great' story on your tone search it certainly is a journey.

Its really interesting you bombed on the Tom Holmes set, I would have said those would've been right up there (although the ones you tried were potted).

There's a few things I was gonna mention.

1) - I have a contact here (in the UK) who has a 58 les paul & in his words 'Matt Gleeson reputedly makes the best british pafs'. I've heard them in person through a cranked 5e3 style amp & I have to say there is something 'very addictive' about them. I met Matt last year & am currently in contact with him about paf's for another guitar. The A2 in the bridge is absolutely spot on for a LP - for my personal tastes though, I thought the neck was a little bit too 'cutting' which would be down to the A5 I would imagine.

2) - I probably speak for quite a few here when I mention that with these modern Les Pauls us as players are trying to do a certain thing. A - we're trying to 'fix' inherent issues that are just part & parcel of our guitars manufacture ie a muddy neck (or in my case) an overly bright bridge. We are then B - trying to get a sound we have in our head/heard recorded to come out of our particular amp/guitar combination - this leads to a 'moving target' situation & trying to 'hit the target' as you have managed to do in this case can be a long, expensive journey.

3) - There's a great guitar & bass magazine article here http://www.guitar-bass.net/features/gibson-minnesota/ that talks about the creation of the CC 39 Minesnesota - near the bottom of the article it states 'The Custom Buckers clean up without losing clarity, but you can’t get them to do woody jazziness, jangle or a ‘Tele on steroids’ trick.

I think there are a number of players on this & the other LP forum who are tone searching & they maybe purely playing their LP through a cranked amp, be it a Marshall or whatever & are looking for a very muscular overdriven sound. Its only when you turn the gain down & try & play jazz chords (even if you hate jazz) that you start to hear that note bloom & rich harmonic as if the note hangs in the air with a three dimensional richness. Its this, coupled with the ability to then turn the guitar back up & in the middle position you achieve a slightly out of phase, almost 'fuzzy' sound such as this video with Phil Harris & a 1958 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHnuisbPLso

That to me epitomises a PAF pickup, the ability to do all things well.

Very nice post, great links and 100% agree on everything!

Tom Holmes were a bit modern sounding and hot. I wish I could try them unpotted. No matter what, they are a very very special pair, sound completelly amazing, super balanced and clean up unbelievably well (they have two balanced coils so that helps with the volume cleanup).

Monty's PAF's have that thing that is so hard to describe: they make my guitar feel and sound like an old and well played instrument. They sting like a bee but they are sweet as honey (haha) On my guitar the neck pup is great, it has great cut/attack but is also has that amazing balanced low-mid chewy thing that brings me joy.

Funny that you mentioned the jazz triads, I am more into the blues/rock genre but a good friend is an amazing jazz guitarist and last night we were testing the pickups: He brought an old 70's Fender combo and I swear the neck pickup of my Les Paul, full on or with the volume rolled down it had that nostalgic tone that we hear in old Wes Montgomery tracks... Mind blowing!

 

[OldBenKenobi]

This is something I struggle with, because if I buy a part to replace a part that was a replacement part I feel like I've wasted money somewhere.

 

[thrashmetl]

For the last two years I've been trying to find my holy grail pickups (and hopefully PAF clones!) for my Les Paul.

I've been through a lot of hardware changes on my 1995 birdseye Les Paul Standard (the guitar on my avatar), right now I've settled to Pigtail studs/bushings/abr-1/tailpiece (and still struggling on the pot selection..!) It is still my no1 guitar, no matter the price it plays and sounds fantastically: I'm on the market for a perfectly vintage specd Historic 59 and after trying about 5-6 of them I've still haven't found one that rivals my 95's clarity and articulation.

Here is some info on my tonal journey (keep in mind that every guitar is a different guitar and everyone has a different taste)

First had a Lindy Fralin P-92 on the neck and WRC Goodwood bridge. This set served me well for many years: Neck position was clear and had a single coil twang on the bass strings and the bridge was bold and clear. Definitely not close to the traditional PAF sound but a nice combo.

Then I went on and tried some OX4's. Very nice pickups, more sizzle and PAF-like tone. One problem I've experienced was a muddy (for my taste!) neck pickup. The pups had A4 magnets and sounded a bit honky to me.

Then the Electric City 59's came in. An underwound neck and a normal bridge, potted: A4 neck and A2 bridge. Also a great set, still the neck pup was honky. I've tried something: replace the A4 with an A3 and voila: clear as a bell! What I did lose with the A3 was the attack when distorted.

For a short period of time I've installed a Seymour Duncan Slash set and those were great too. Very controlled, smooth and even sounding, close to a "studio mastered" Les Paul tone, great for OD tones. I really wanted a set with the classic look (covers) that sounds a bit more traditional but if I had another Les Paul I would gladly leave these on.

Then Ive decided to try one of the pickups I've been reading all these years: The Tom Holmes standard A2 set. Well these are trully special. Fat without being muddy, blooming and bold low-mids and a great open top. What I've noticed is that the standard set felt really hot: lots of output. Also the set I got was potted so it felt a bit "not so alive" as the other unpotted pickups.

Then I went back again at OX4, this time an A4 bridge and A3 neck. Still great, still a bit underwhelmed from the neck pickup: I prefer stringier wound strings, these were almost too fat for me(someone would definitely love them, I am sure)

My last journey was the Monty's PAFs. Made in London, A5 neck, A2 bridge, with some king of wax treatment on the metal parts of the pickup but the coils competely un-waxed (this fights microphonics when in high gain). Now to these ears and hands this is an amazing set. Straight ahead my guitar has that sizzle but also the unbelievable woody sound I've been dreaming all these years. This is the closest I've ever managed to approach the 60's Les Pauls that I've played. The neck pickup has great midrange but with very clear bass and a great attack and the bridge pickup is pure Jimi Page/Gary Moore sizzle, all I ever wanted from a classic Les Paul is there in spades. They clean up great, feedback is effortless and the pickups scream "alive" to me.

These is my pickup journey so far, I am in a very happy state with Monty's and I think that I am done

Is A2 bridge/A5 neck Standard?

 

[ARandall]

This is something I struggle with, because if I buy a part to replace a part that was a replacement part I feel like I've wasted money somewhere.

Just get more guitars....works for most of us.

I have a number of PAF clones. They just get the runaround in various handmade burst clone guitars until that magic combo comes about.

 

[dmoss74]

Just get more guitars....works for most of us.

I have a number of PAF clones. They just get the runaround in various handmade burst clone guitars until that magic combo comes about.

ye old guitar/pickup/harness, etc shell game. i believe we've all bt,dt. it's all part of the stewardship. i wonder how many folks who have owned "holy grail" guitars have been down the same rabbit hole.

most people don't care to dive into the weeds, but i'd be willing to wager that the preponderance of folks who post here are rabid tone tinkerers. at least it seems that way to me (anecdotally).

 

[TM1]

Guess you've not tried any ThroBaks...

 

[switch1]

Is A2 bridge/A5 neck Standard?

Yes, it's his standard configuration.

 

[switch1]

Guess you've not tried any ThroBaks...

Unfortunately not... Too many choices for me, I feel lost in Throbak's website.

 

[joebloggs]

Great read!

 

[chipss]

Thanks for the read, think every guitar is a jorney to get their, and a very few have it from the get go.
My les paul is still searching.

 

[judson]

thanks for the post, i think i am on a path some here have traveled as you come to realize that you have an adequate number of guitars and instead of spending larger sums for more guitars with pickups you think you need or want, you start the pickup quest......

so then you can thin the heard of guitars and spend the cash on pickups

i think i just started that phase......and im guessin phase three is multiple amp purchases

so eating ramen noodles for the next 5 years might not be too bad, i can stand to lose a few lbs...

 

[chipss]

Eating romen,
I eat romen for pickups. And vintage blue molded coupling caps for that blackface built, or mustards for a marsh, or a hand built capsule for a u87 mic build, that leads to my 1073 mic pre clone, or a 1176 , i got it bad, but master of nothing,
take the whole signal path into thought, study, and building, but ya lots of ramin.
One day i think i will just play classical guitar only and eat better.....lol naaaa

 

[bassmannlespaulman]

Guess you've not tried any ThroBaks...

I have.... got 3 sets.... they're all incredible. But i haven't bought a PAF clone i haven't loved and I've tried at least 7 different companies. My next few guitars will all have different companies. Monty peter florance doyle tru coil and kloppman are all companies i intend to use.