A Gibson Fraud

R1sky

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Hi Guys,

Came across this listing which has infuriated me.

Seller ‘claims’ it’s a Gibson when it clearly is a cheap epiphone with ‘upgrades’ to make it a 50s Gibson.

I have asked the seller to change the title as is it clearly an epiphone which they have gone to explain somewhat in the description but refuse to change the title.

I do not want a fellow guitarist spending obscene amounts of money on a fake.

As a Japanese LP collector I know a replica when I see one :fingersx:

I have kindly asked them to change the title to not mislead a would be buyer.

 

paruwi

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Converted professionally from an already excellent Epiphone 60 Tribute Plus to as close to a custom shop £5,000 60 model as possible.
at least it has a long neck tenon - which many Gibsons of that years did not have AFAIK

when it clearly is a cheap epiphone
cheap is relative....

basicly it already was a 'Gibson' made in China, just branded Epiphone
EpiWeb_Tribute800x620.jpg


I know a replica when I see one
actually it is not a replica - it is a real Les Paul, made by Epiphone
 

R1sky

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Each to their own a true Les Paul imo is a Gibson.

Epiphone may be able the legally use the brand logo.

The fact of the matter is the seller is passing this off as a Gibson les Paul when it is an epiphone Les Paul.

I know there are several higher models of Epiphones like the Elites and I’m sure I’ve seen epiphones with ‘epiphone by Gibson’ branded but this is just trying to pull the wool over an unsuspecting buyer.

Not to mention the rebranded fake headstock making it counterfeit.
 

jb_abides

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He states it's a conversion. Not something I would do, but caveat emptor and all...
 

cybermgk

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"Genuine Gibson 60’s faceplate on converted headstock "

What exactly is a Genuine Gibson 60s Faceplate?
 

lpfan1980

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at least it has a long neck tenon - which many Gibsons of that years did not have AFAIK



cheap is relative....

basicly it already was a 'Gibson' made in China, just branded Epiphone
View attachment 464138


actually it is not a replica - it is a real Les Paul, made by Epiphone
But its not a Gibson technically a Lexus is a toyota but not in build or price range-Epiphones are great guitars but saying it s a Gibson when it is not is fraud. At least be honest about it.
 

R1sky

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That’s fair good knowledge.

Les Paul aside it was misleading, fake headstock, fake title albeit the description mentioned it was a ‘converted’ epiphone.

Rebadging any guitar with a Gibson decal makes it a fake if your then try to pass it as that ,no argument needed.

I think it’s been taken down or sold as it had 6 days left.

They may of sold it through a private message.

I just didn’t want an unsuspecting buyer being ripped off by something it wasn’t.

alas it may be too late....
 

CB91710

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Regardless, it sold for what is not a bad price for that model of Epiphone.
A little high... but the conversion may be worth something to someone.

The problem is, the person who bought it may try to flip it without revealing the conversion.
 

Wuuthrad

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Off topic but check this out:

4F856C0E-945A-444F-B4F0-19CDF63AD1B9.jpeg

From a blue sparkle flake 90s Gibson/Epiphone Les Paul Custom. Sweet guitars!
 

R1sky

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Really Interesting video.

A rebranded mis-represented product is illegal to sell in the UK, but not illegal to own if you are fully aware it’s fake.... interesting.

I wonder if an auction site is any different from a retailer, I would assume not.

Both that Pelham blue SG and the doublecut ‘unbranded’ guitars look pretty nice actually
 

WebbMan

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Hi Guys,

Came across this listing which has infuriated me.

Seller ‘claims’ it’s a Gibson when it clearly is a cheap epiphone with ‘upgrades’ to make it a 50s Gibson.

I have asked the seller to change the title as is it clearly an epiphone which they have gone to explain somewhat in the description but refuse to change the title.

I do not want a fellow guitarist spending obscene amounts of money on a fake.

As a Japanese LP collector I know a replica when I see one :fingersx:

I have kindly asked them to change the title to not mislead a would be buyer.

DUDE, if you get infuriated every time you see an asshole trying to scam someone you'll end up in the nut house. 1) Stay CALM and mind the GAP... Ummm, no - I mean contact the seller as you have done and IF he doesn't change the listing report him and pat yourself on the back for doing a good deed. Yes, I agree - people who intentionally scam should burn in hell.
 

drivers1959

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This happens more than you probably realize..tons of scammers out there, but you should only concern yourself if its a purchase that you intend to make..then address it with the seller, and if not then there's not much you can do about it. If its on eBay or reverb for sale you can always tell the administrators and make then aware then they might pull that add off the listing
 
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linv5800

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Each to their own a true Les Paul imo is a Gibson.

Epiphone may be able the legally use the brand logo.

The fact of the matter is the seller is passing this off as a Gibson les Paul when it is an epiphone Les Paul.

I know there are several higher models of Epiphones like the Elites and I’m sure I’ve seen epiphones with ‘epiphone by Gibson’ branded but this is just trying to pull the wool over an unsuspecting buyer.

Not to mention the rebranded fake headstock making it counterfeit.
Maybe im mistaken , but were not the 1st TRUE Les Pauls by the man himself at an epi plant called the log ? Seems
that's in Leses own bio ? Maybe im wrong . But to each his onw. Ive got both and I have Epi plustop pro
that's as sweet as any Les Paul , new or old . Jmho
I just feel that Epiphone has every right to the name as well . But I don't like the headstock. The newer Kalamazoo is nice
 
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jamhandy

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The eBay link is dead so I didn't get to see the guitar. I did learn something from post #2, that Epiphone has a "Les Paul Tribute Plus" that comes with Gibson '57 Classics. MF still has some, ($849.00)

Kind of puts it in the ballpark of a Gibson LP Studio price. Plus, if you keep watching the specs, the Gibson studios do some cool things once in a while. In 2008 Gibby had a LP Studio worn brown (and a worn cherry one) that came with burstbucker pups, and had a mahogany top instead of maple. For $800 brand new. The mahogany top gave the guitar an awesome woody tone. I had one for a long time then finanacial poo-doo forced me to sell it.

I have an Epiphone Johnny A model on layaway at a local store. Since he's had it in stock for a long time (2017-ish?) he cut me a smoking deal I couldn't refuse. I guess the 2 main selling points for me were... 1) it has an ebony FB (just a couple three years ago, Gibson started putting RICHLITE compressed paper and glue FBs on their $4,000+ LP Customs (the new CEO has them back to ebony FB) richlite was a bright boy idiot Henry J CEO idea...) and for me 2) the Epi Johnny A has Gibson '57 Classic pups. They just happen to be my fave Gibby pups, so my eyes glass over and my heart lights up when I see Epiphone using them, LOL... (pitter patter, thump-duh-dump, thump-duh-dump). And if there was a 3rd) flame-ish looking top and gold HW, and I don't have a semi-hollow anything at the moment,,, Made in China... who'da thunk it ? Here's a web photo of the Epiphone Johnny A:
Epi _Johnny-A_Model_02.jpg



A while back I did some research on the penalties surrounding knowingly selling counterfeit goods...



(a)Offenses.—Whoever intentionally—
(1)
traffics in goods or services and knowingly uses a counterfeit mark on or in connection with such goods or services,


...then this happens...

(1) In general.—Whoever commits an offense under subsection (a)—
(A)
if an individual, shall be fined not more than $2,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 10 years, or both, and, if a person other than an individual, shall be fined not more than $5,000,000; and
(B)
for a second or subsequent offense under subsection (a), if an individual, shall be fined not more than $5,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 20 years, or both, and if other than an individual, shall be fined not more than $15,000,000.



So, before you start wringing your hands together thinking of all the dupes and sly one-overs to pull by buying a $300 Chibson... and KNOWINGLY selling it on eBad for $2,000 (OR SOMETHING)...you have to get it through US Customs first...

Here's a jucy bit on the US Customs web site:

I suppose if you're looking to dupe somebody into buy (say) a Chibson fake/counterfeit Gibson, and you have a spare $2 million dollars laying around to pay the first time offender's fine and 10-20 years to spend with Bubba in the Federal pan... might want to re-consider how much profit you'll make on your Chibson or faked Chibson.

Logos and Trademarks also have laws protecting them, so you don't just take a water decal slide Gibson (or Fender) logo and slap it on an Epiphone (in in the case of a Fender, a Fender-looking neck of some kind), and write some text about it being an "upgrade"... only Gibson (or Fender, etc, etc) has the legal right to use the Gibson (or Fender, etc, etc) name...

I once bought a G&L Legacy from a pawn shop in Texas. It was a super bargain at $450 out the door and they were selling it as a USA G&L (it said "USA G&L" on the hang tag they were using). It was a model with a satin finish on the neck. When I got it home I tried looking up the serial number and it came up with "Indonesia" (can't remember how...). I got out a magnifying glass and you could see what was left of the black silk screened letters "Made in Indonesia" around the serial number on the back of the headstock. Then on the front of the headstock you could tell a razor blade had wiped off "Tribute Series" (G&Ls Asian made brand).

I did some research on the selling of counterfeit goods, printed out what I had found, and returned to the pawn shop and told them they had sold me a counterfeit G&L. The guy didn't say a word, turned white as a ghost, went back behind the curtain, and brought me all my money back. I let it lay, gave him the guitar back, and took my money. Then reported the guitar and serial number to the G&LDP (discussion page) where they have a registry for such things, and noted it was a fake USA, made in Indonesia Tribute.

I was going to a pawn shop here in Florida (across the street from my house, very handy) and as I walked up, the guy knew me and said "do you know about guitars". Yep... He had loaned somebody money on what was "supposed" to be a Gibson Joe Perry Boneyard signature. I looked it over and spotted several non-Gibby things, it was pretty obvious. For one, the real Boneyard has a one-piece body... if you looked at the strap button end of the guitar, you could count at least 4 pieces of wood glued together and could clearly see where the grain didn't match up. But the counterfeiter had slyly made a paper thin piece of veneer on the back so if you just looked at the back, it looked to be one piece. Then I noticed the control cover plate's screws were all off center. Once the plate was removed there were very obvious cheap Chinese pots inside. But they were crafty, they had a printer sticker surrounding the wires that said (in teeny little font) "Manufactured Under Several US Patents" then had a list of about what looked like 3-4 "US Patent" numbers (easily printed on any computer). Wrapped around what looked like 32ga or smaller Chinese wires, haha. It was "supposed" to be a "Joe Perry Boneyard" guitar... a model which has the plastic tulip shaped tuners... this guitar had "Grover" tuners... haha. I didn't dig any deeper... I told the guy these things and told him he had a fake.

Counterfeits are maybe one of the hundreds of reasons I don't buy guitars online. Plus I like to shop and socialize with the guys at the guitar shops, plus to me the ultimate "I'll buy it" only comes after plugging it in to an amp and doing some kind of test drive. The ones that come home with me have a "soul"... just some kind of magic feel or sound that hits me in the chest. And if it is a turd, I can sometimes tell that with one or two strums (or sloppy undressed frets cutting the crotch of my hand)... "yuck" and it goes back on the rack.

And yes, I think there is definitely a very hot seat in hell for idiots who try to dupe innocent people.
 
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drivers1959

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Really Interesting video.

A rebranded mis-represented product is illegal to sell in the UK, but not illegal to own if you are fully aware it’s fake.... interesting.

I wonder if an auction site is any different from a retailer, I would assume not.

Both that Pelham blue SG and the doublecut ‘unbranded’ guitars look pretty nice actually
....loop holes, always loop holes
 


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