A Gentler Form of Genocide

Roberteaux

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The Associated Press news agency published some interesting information concerning the People's Republic of China yesterday...

China Cuts Uighur Births with IUD's, Abortion, and Sterilization

For years now, the Chinese government has faced pretty much the same problems with some of the same types of religiously-motivated militant groups that staged insurgencies in various nation states on the southwestern end of the Eurasian Continent. We don't hear much about it because the Chinese government doesn't say much about it... but every once in a while we hear of a terrorist attack anyway, and it's almost always the same culprits doing the attacking: members of the Uighur ethnic group that is found in greatest concentration in Xinjiang Province.

This province is in Central Asia-- that is, on the western end of the People's Republic of China, though nowhere near the more well-known hotbeds of insurgency such as Syria and Iraq.

As such, the militant group in China is at a great disadvantage when compared to some of the other groups we've heard so much of over the last decade. That is, they really don't have any strong allies nearby, and nations such as Iran wouldn't be willing to assist them because Iran is currently big buddies with the People's Republic. More, the Uighurs aren't representative of the particular spiritual brand that Iran is most in favor of, and are instead occupying the opposite end of that particular spectrum.

Which is to say that while ISIS and Al Qaeda would be full of approval for these Uighur insurgents in Xinjiang Province-- and in fact, Uighur ethnic members have shown up as members of both of those groups-- neither ISIS nor Al Qaeda has the reach needed to really help the Uighur insurgents to fight against the forces arrayed against the province by the rulers in Beijing.

Add to this the reality that the Chinese government has managed to duplicate the sort of totalitarian milieu that they already set up in Tibet, and has thus more or less bottled up Xinjiang. This is to say that like Tibet, Xinjiang is a Chinese province that is essentially akin to one enormous prison camp.

Now that Hong Kong is mostly down the tubes, there is no part of China that does not basically qualify as a police state. But in provinces such as Tibet and Xinjiang it's almost correct to say that the state is more of a "concentration camp state" than a mere police state.

I could write many dark paragraphs to detail what I'm talking about here, but most of it would be old hat to all but the least aware of readers.

For them, suffice it to say that there's a continuous police and military crackdown on the populace of Xinjiang and Tibet, with the Chinese Communist Party doing its best to eliminate all regional cultural trappings and other social elements of such localities. Beijing is thus replacing the more traditional of local societies with the repressively blasé social structures preferred by the autocratic clique calling the shots in Beijing.

***************​

For those who don't want to click on the link I posted at the beginning of this dreary-ass post, let it be known that the Associated Press news agency has conducted an investigation into the CCP's instigation of birth control measures in Xinjiang-- and found that these birth control programs are incumbent on the local population whether they want to participate or not.

As usual, there's nothing particularly voluntary about what China is forcing on the Uighur ethnic group in Xinjiang Province.

What is entailed is forced birth control, which comes in various forms ranging from mandatory pregnancy checks, to mandatory installation of IUD's in some women... and on down the line after that with measures that include involuntary sterilization of Uighur women, and abortion of their fetuses.

Pretty slick. If you don't like a group because it will fight you, then you can essentially kill them all off via birth control.

And China has been doing plenty of that with its pattern of mass arrests, mass internment, and of course, "reeducation" of Uighur group members. Meanwhile, the populace is subject to police raids, searches for hidden children, seizure of such children when they are found, and of course, mass incarceration of the parents by the thousands and hundreds of thousands.

As such, the birth rate among Uighurs has dropped by 60% in a 3-year period as hundreds of thousands of women have been subjected to mandatory birth control measures.


Have a graph:

sterilization.JPG

The result of all this is what AP referred to as "a climate of terror around having children". As further studies revealed, it really is a concentrated kind of effort in Xinjiang Province.

While the birth rates there have dropped by a further 24% last year, the national average reflects a drop of more like 4.2% nationwide. So yes: the Chicom government really is concentrating on the Uighur group with these programs.

One person who studies Chinese suppression of minorities, Adrian Zenz, wrote, “This kind of drop is unprecedented....there’s a ruthlessness to it. It is part of a wider control campaign to subjugate the Uighurs.”

And it's a pretty sly kind of way to do it, too. Rather than to run Nazi-style death camps and put up with the opprobrium of other nations-- especially the nuclear-armed ones that China cannot subjugate directly-- the Chinese government is committing a sort of soft genocide... a kinder, gentler ethnic cleansing that's not so smelly or messy as the slaughterhouse-style, conveyor-belt death mills of yore.

Of course, China's foreign minister says that the AP study is full of shit. He went on to say that story is “fabricated” and "fake news." He also claimed that the government treats all ethnicities equally and protects the legal rights of minorities. :thumb:

The Tibetans would laugh at that if they weren't too scared to.

Of course, there are Western apologists for the Chicoms at hand. For instance, Darren Byler (from the University of Colorado) claimed that the diminishing of the Uighur group is gonna be good for them. He went on to say, "The intention may not be to fully eliminate the Uighur population, but it will sharply diminish their vitality".

Nice. Then, on a brighter note, he added, "It will make them easier to assimilate into the mainstream Chinese population"... which in this case means that the Uighurs will get along better with the majority Han ethnic group calling the shots in Beijing.

And of course, the Han group has absolutely no ethnic prejudices of its own. By golly, thousands of years of mutual hatred vanished overnight when the CCP came into power... :laugh2:

Still, a British researcher begged to differ. Joanne Smith Finley of Newcastle University in the UK countered Byler's blob of treacle by saying, "It’s genocide, full stop. It’s not immediate, shocking, mass-killing on the spot type genocide, but it’s slow, painful, creeping genocide."

At any rate, that's the gist of the article I posted a link to at the onset of this post. The AP article itself goes on into much greater detail than what I've outlined above, and is worth a read for those who are interested in understanding why we probably shouldn't be Really Big Buddies with the People's Republic...

...or at least, not with the Chinese Communist Party that's calling the shots in that nation.

--R
 
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jb_abides

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Wilhelm Stuckart proposed generational sterilization at the Wannsee Conference in 1942; however, it did not suit the timeline of the Party.

The CCP takes the long view to lessen opprobrium. No surprises here, just sadness and impotent outrage.
 

rikko

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I'm having a hard time understanding what's allowed in this forum.
You posted this, so I'll tag you with this.
 

Barnaby

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I'm having a hard time understanding what's allowed in this forum.
Me too. In fact, whilst in no way passing judgment on the post that started this thread, I do find a lot of the things written in here about Asian countries in particular to be quite misguided and offensive. One can see lots of that sort of thing directed at other countries than the United States in the Backstage. Not wishing to get into arguments with people, I tend to leave it alone. However, I do believe that the prohibition on politics only applies to US stuff.

From this link:

Politics and political posting on this forum ( which is against the rules ) is defined as US party politics and commentary, pro or con, effigies or satire pictures, memes, "goof" pictures etc of politicians of any particular party or ideology, such as liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, left wing, right wing, Presidential politics, campaign politics or those running for the office of POTUS or their campaign staff, political pundit discussion, etc.

Thus, China seems to be fair game, as are North Korea, the Middle East and a bunch of other places. I'm not sure why the mods decided this, but there you go.

As a Brit who lived for years in Australia, Austria and now Japan for many years, but also as someone who has never spent longer than a week or two in America at any given time, I try not to make statements about the internal politics of the US both here and in general discourse because I figure that it's not my place. I think that it would be rude of me to do so, and I would also be at a high risk of making ignorant statements because I lack direct knowledge and context.

There are surely other online communities where political discourse of almost any kind would be both welcome and appropriate, but it seems strange on a site dedicated to guitars. I honestly feel that it would be nice if people who didn't live in a given country or didn't know a lot about it extended the same courtesy to others on this forum - and especially if members from the US chose to do so, as their internal politics are already protected by forum rules - but that may perhaps be too much to ask.
 
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Fiat Lux

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I'm having a hard time understanding what's allowed in this forum.
You posted this, so I'll tag you with this.
I don’t see how you have any trouble understanding that posts about the American President are not allowed. Your apparent inability to understand is incredulous.

If you don’t agree with the rules, or would prefer not to follow them, perhaps you should post elsewhere.

cheers
 

Fiat Lux

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Me too. In fact, whilst in no way passing judgment on the post that started this thread, I do find a lot of the things written in here about Asian countries in particular to be quite misguided and offensive. One can see lots of that sort of thing directed at other countries than the United States in the Backstage. Not wishing to get into arguments with people, I tend to leave it alone. However, I do believe that the prohibition on politics only applies to US stuff.

From this link:

Politics and political posting on this forum ( which is against the rules ) is defined as US party politics and commentary, pro or con, effigies or satire pictures, memes, "goof" pictures etc of politicians of any particular party or ideology, such as liberal, conservative, democrat, republican, left wing, right wing, Presidential politics, campaign politics or those running for the office of POTUS or their campaign staff, political pundit discussion, etc.

Thus, China seems to be fair game, as are North Korea, the Middle East and a bunch of other places. I'm not sure why the mods decided this, but there you go.

As a Brit who lived for years in Australia, Austria and now Japan for many years, but also as someone who has never spent longer than a week or two in America at any given time, I try not to make statements about the internal politics of the US both here and in general discourse because I figure that it's not my place. I think that it would be rude of me to do so, and I would also be at a high risk of making ignorant statements because I lack direct knowledge and context.

There are surely other online communities where political discourse of almost any kind would be both welcome and appropriate, but it seems strange on a site dedicated to guitars. I honestly feel that it would be nice if people who didn't live in a given country or didn't know a lot about it extended the same courtesy to others on this forum - and especially if members from the US chose to do so, as their internal politics are already protected by forum rules - but that may perhaps be too much to ask.
Im struggling to remember the last time there was a fight on this forum over Chinese internal politics.

cheers
 

Barnaby

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Im struggling to remember the last time there was a fight on this forum over Chinese internal politics.

cheers
Well, how about I put it this way?

It would be nice if the same standards applied to US politics were expanded to cover all political discussions. That way, threads like this one, the one about Kim Jong-Un and quite a few others wouldn't exist.

I'm not saying that the positions taken by people in those threads are right or wrong. However, MLP has an international readership, and I would personally be happy if the rule on non-political discussion were extended to cover all countries. I suspect that others might feel the same way, although I don't presume to speak for them.
 

gadafi

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MLP has an international readership, and I would personally be happy if the rule on non-political discussion were extended to cover all countries. I suspect that others might feel the same way, although I don't presume to speak for them.
Pretty sure most citizens of China and North Korea do not have access to the internet... their authoritarian communist governments don't permit it.

They do however have many inserted intelligence actors who are very active on the likes of Twitter and 'news' sites.
 

Fiat Lux

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It would be nice if the same standards applied to US politics were expanded to cover all political discussions. That way, threads like this one, the one about Kim Jong-Un and quite a few others wouldn't exist.
Just why? Is there a surfeit of North Korean Les Paul owners who are sick of fighting over the politics of NK? Are their communist Chinese and Chinese libertarians who are sick of the constant niggling of each other on this forum.

Seriously, we are all interested i what you think, but don't have to agree. similarly, it's not your job to advocate for the North Koreans and Communist Chinese who just don't happen to post on this forum.

I'm not saying that the positions taken by people in those threads are right or wrong. However, MLP has an international readership, and I would personally be happy if the rule on non-political discussion were extended to cover all countries. I suspect that others might feel the same way, although I don't presume to speak for them.
Im really not sure anyone really cares what would make you happy...

cheers
 

VictorB

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I'm having a hard time understanding what's allowed in this forum.
You posted this, so I'll tag you with this.
It’s not that difficult really. Not at all.

So I have two ideas as to why you posted this:

1. You think you are clever by feigning ignorance regarding what constitutes as politics. All the while posting a controversial story about the President of the United States. (No one can be that dumb and not think that story was political, right?)

2. You truly are that ignorant and can’t make a connection between the “no politics” rule the forum has, and what you posted. (Again, pretty stupid as to not figure that out)



Either choice paints you as a fool. And either choice has no bearing on the outcome for posting that material.

Keep in mind anyone with half a brain can see what you posted does break the forum’s rules.

So regardless of your excuse for posting it, you have made an embarrassment out of yourself. I’d be ashamed if it were me.
 
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jb_abides

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A good article in the form of a satellite 'slide show' courtesy of Down Under ABC -

 

Roberteaux

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However, I do believe that the prohibition on politics only applies to US stuff.
That's correct.

Thus, China seems to be fair game, as are North Korea, the Middle East and a bunch of other places.
Correct again.

I'm not sure why the mods decided this, but there you go.
Technically speaking, the moderators didn't decide this: the site's owner did. We're just here to enforce those rules the site owner decided to put into effect.

NOT that we mind doing so-- and it's not as if we disagree with the rules themselves.

There are surely other online communities where political discourse of almost any kind would be both welcome and appropriate, but it seems strange on a site dedicated to guitars.
That matters not. In reality, this site can carry on in whatever manner the owner has decided upon.

While we appreciate your personal sensibilities and do entertain your ability to express them here, it's not as though your personal considerations are entirely likely to be viewed as guidance whereas the site's rules are concerned.

It's just this simple: it's your choice as to whether to post here or not. And it's also your choice as to whether to participate in a given thread or not.

I honestly feel that it would be nice if people who didn't live in a given country or didn't know a lot about it extended the same courtesy to others on this forum - and especially if members from the US chose to do so, as their internal politics are already protected by forum rules - but that may perhaps be too much to ask.
Actually, what was quoted in the post you're not judging was a lengthy study made by members of Associated Press-- and some of those cited within the article are actually long-time professional students of the nation under examination.

In two cases, the persons who were quoted are actually academicians whose field of endeavor is directly related to affairs currently taking place within the People's Republic of China. One of them was from the UK. Perhaps you should write to her, to express your negative opinion of her personal conclusions.

And to be fair: I did go ahead and quote one opinion that wasn't entirely anti the policies of the Chinese Communist Party. I also indicated the rationale that the Chicom government appears to be using as it suppresses the population of the Uighur ethnic minority.

I did indicate my own attitude towards that opinion, and showed little favor for it... but then: that's allowed under the forum's rules.

Now, feel free to offer counterpoint to the article I cited. Perhaps you're finding favor with those policies that the PRC has instigated, which others have denounced as genocidal?

You can certainly try to defend those policies, then... but it may prove that others strongly disagree with you.

--R
 
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Barnaby

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I am not defending the policies of the Chinese or North Korean governments, and nor am I criticising them. I am merely pointing out an apparent inequality in site policy. However, as stated above, this is a private site and the owner sets the rules. Additionally, as is also pointed out, one can choose whether or not to participate.
 

Fiat Lux

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I am not defending the policies of the Chinese or North Korean governments, and nor am I criticising them. I am merely pointing out an apparent inequality in site policy. However, as stated above, this is a private site and the owner sets the rules. Additionally, as is also pointed out, one can choose whether or not to participate.
They deserve criticism.

cheers
 


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