'59 Les Paul Jr or is it?

none2low

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Came across this Les Paul Junior on Ebay that is purported to be a '59, but it's got my spidey sense tingling.

There are a number of things that are clearly not correct, however there are things that lead me to believe it might be a refin. with changed out parts.

Two things that really stand out to me are the headstock, it looks way too crisp, and the fretboard, it just looks off even if it was refretted and possibly leveled. The nut also bothers me. It's not the original nylon nut, yet it has aged lacquer on the back side of it.

The guitar is local to me, so I may run over this weekend to do an in person inspection, but would like to get everyone else's thoughts on what this might be.

Here's a link to the auction: 1959 Gibson Les Paul Jr
 

LtDave32

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1) color is wrong. It's some sort of plumb.

2) checking is too "uniform" as if done in a freezer.

3) bridge has modern angle to it. Not vintage angle.

4) bridge awfully damn shiny new for a vintage instrument.

5) nut is bone. Supposed to be Nylon 4/6. That ain't nylon.

6) round over on edges is very severe. Too big a round over.

7 headstock to "crisp" as you say. No dings, no wear from 60 years of use.

* IF* this were an original 1959, it's been severely reworked and refinished. very little is original and the bridge studs have been plugged and relocated for modern strings.
 

none2low

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Thanks Dave!! I noticed every one of the things you've pointed out, but didn't want to openly point to them and sway anyone's opinion one way or another.

I also noticed the truss rod cover is rounded over in the bottom corners. Which IMO looks way to uniform to not be it's original shape. The shot of the bottom strap pin also worries me as it looks suspiciously like a plywood body :Ohno:

I know the pawn shop that it's in, and I know they do get in authentic pieces, but this one has me shaking my head and considering reporting it to ebay so no one gets taken.
 

LtDave32

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Thanks Dave!! I noticed every one of the things you've pointed out, but didn't want to openly point to them and sway anyone's opinion one way or another.

I also noticed the truss rod cover is rounded over in the bottom corners. Which IMO looks way to uniform to not be it's original shape. The shot of the bottom strap pin also worries me as it looks suspiciously like a plywood body :Ohno:

I know the pawn shop that it's in, and I know they do get in authentic pieces, but this one has me shaking my head and considering reporting it to ebay so no one gets taken.
I see grain in the pickup rout, so I don't think it's plywood.

But the color.. sheesh. And the bridge angle. It could have been plugged and re-drilled for modern strings, and a refin including sanding the body down to clean up the dings. But that round over. Severe. Looks like a new fret board too. Does not look like Braz to me. 1959 would have had a Braz board.

The lack of close-up pics that would count are missing, and that's a big tell right there.
 

themollusk79

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The braided pickup wire looks off, too. The old ones had two strands per wire and that one appears to have three.
 

truckermde

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I see what you mean about that shot of the bottom strap pin. Looks weird.

It'll be interesting to hear your impressions from an in-person viewing...
 

none2low

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The lack of close-up pics that would count are missing, and that's a big tell right there.
That shop always has the worst pictures and as the saying goes. A little bit of knowledge...

I've seen them completely misidentify stuff that is easily researchable. I don't know if it's a matter of them trying to hide something, not knowing what they have, or just being jaded from too many years in the pawn business thinking everyone is out to get one over on them, but as always caveat emptor.

Looks like a new fret board too. Does not look like Braz to me.
I thought the same when I first saw it. They claim re-fret, but even if the board has been sanded the radius doesn't look right to me.

Part of me thinks it started life as a Japanese copy that's been Gibsonized, but I'm also curious about the what if. If indeed it turned out to be a '59 I'd consider it, obviously for no where near what they're asking, but for cheap, maybe.

The braided pickup wire looks off, too. The old ones had two strands per wire and that one appears to have three.
I believe the pickup is probably a Duncan replacement, but definitely not the original P90.
 

LtDave32

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I will say that most re-frets will include a clean-up sanding of the fret board. One gets a lot of finger-pressure marks and other wear, so that's good practice on a refret.

But that board doesn't look "Braz" to me.
 

christopherJ

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Errm, no.

Besides, I don't do business with people who only post a few pics which include out of focus and badly composed images.
 

none2low

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Errm, no.

Besides, I don't do business with people who only post a few pics which include out of focus and badly composed images.
I've gotten some great deals over the years by taking chances on sellers with less than stellar photos. :cool2:
 

LtDave32

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I'm here for you any time.. :)
 

none2low

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Three thousand dollar chances?
Does the asking price of an item negate the validity of my comment?

You've indicated that you're willing to dismiss an item solely on the basis of "out of focus and badly composed images" I indicated that I'm not so quick to do so, and as a result, have gotten some deals over the years.

As far as the guitar in question. No I'm not willing to pay their current asking price as it obviously has issues, however "if" it could be confirmed AND if the price was right I might consider it. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
 


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