50s wiring or treble bleed?

[TM1]

I recently acquired a 2016 Les Paul Traditional. I love it, but with the modern wiring, things get a little muddy when I turn the volume pots down. I was thinking of having my tech put in 50s wiring, but I have also heard of a treble bleed mod that seems to do something similar. Is there an advantage to one over the other?

If you turn down the Tone control to about 5-6 when you turn down the Volume, it will stay clean/clear.

 

[hbucker]

I really like results I'm getting with treble bleeds. Success varies with guitars, pickups and amp settings.

 

[edro]

I put a 50's from Toneman in my Goldie with minis... Love it...

I think they do similar...

 

[Brek]

What I like about the 50’s wiring is the controls become interactive, which allows you to dial in some pretty nice blends of tone.

 

[Red Planet]

I like the 50's wiring, works for me. Also a good buffer is nice to have in the chain as well.

I use this one on my pedal board.

Emerson Custom Concord Utility Buffer

Emerson Custom - Concord Utility Buffer The Emerson Custom Concord Utility Buffer is built with premium audio grade components to give you amazing clarity and retain your signal after using a lot of pedals. Meaning, your tone and sparkling highs will remain clear after all the circuits and cable...

www.humbuckermusic.com

And I use this one when not using a pedal board, it works just as well.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/boss-tu-3-chromatic-pedal-tuner/712517000000000?pfm=item_page.rr1|ClickCP

 

[Brek]

I like the 50's wiring, works for me. Also a good buffer is nice to have in the chain as well.

I use this one on my pedal board.

Emerson Custom Concord Utility Buffer

Emerson Custom - Concord Utility Buffer The Emerson Custom Concord Utility Buffer is built with premium audio grade components to give you amazing clarity and retain your signal after using a lot of pedals. Meaning, your tone and sparkling highs will remain clear after all the circuits and cable...

www.humbuckermusic.com

And I use this one when not using a pedal board, it works just as well.

https://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/boss-tu-3-chromatic-pedal-tuner/712517000000000?pfm=item_page.rr1|ClickCP

was not sure what to make of buffets either built in or separate. I am starting to get why they are important if you use a few pedals between guitar and amp. Not got one yet, but will at some point.

 

[Bobby Mahogany]

The Black Rose Custom modified wiring is electrically no different than standard modern wiring.
It puts the capacitor in a different place in the circuit, but it is a series circuit and does not alter anything electrically.

This:
---| |---/\/\/\/--->GND

Is electrically identical to this:
---/\/\/\/---| |--->GND

Electrical science knowledge?

 

[edro]

Electrical science knowledge?

It's just like science....but different.....

 

[Lester]

 

[Red Planet]

was not sure what to make of buffets either built in or separate. I am starting to get why they are important if you use a few pedals between guitar and amp. Not got one yet, but will at some point.

It works like this. Just your guitar plugged into a cable straight in a average tube amp the signal is loaded. This amount of loading could be your desired tonal preference or it might not. Insert a buffer in the chain and the signal will get cleaner/brighter. Now add some pedals in the mix and a long cable run you get even more loading/roll off of highs. Insert a buffer between guitar and load and major difference. Some pedals can have a heavy loading affect and some combinations of pedals too.

I use a wireless on my pedal board so my signal is not loaded and I use a buffer ( Emerson Concord) at the output of my board. I like the cleanest signal I can get but others may prefer some degre of loading.

Some studio Channel Strips/ DIs will actualy have a load control built in and I think I have seen some guitar AB boxes with a load control/drag.

 

[rumbuckers]

I have a ~1997 Gibson LP standard with original pots/caps/modern wiring. I wanted to try 50s wiring and 500K-ohm pots. I picked out new pots and caps from an online shop then wondered if I could get that stuff locally. I found that I could only get 500K-ohm, long-stem pots with DPDT push/pull (locally...). So I thought: what could I use that extra DPDT for?

I figured I could wire it push/50s, pull/modern. Stupid, but could one?

I photoshopped this wiring diagram together from, what looks like, other similar diagrams posted on this thread.

I probably won't do this, but would this work? It could be a decent way to A/B those wiring differences or capacitor values?

Thanks.

 

[CB91710]

You could, but all you actually need to switch is the connection from the capacitor to the volume pot.
A single DPDT switch can switch both neck and bridge
Leave the cap connected to the tone control.
Separate the cap from the volume control and attach it to the switch's common (center) terminal.
Connect the wiper of the volume control to one side, connect the end terminal to the other.
Voila... 50s/modern switchable.

 

[rumbuckers]

Thanks CB91710 for your response,
I've been considering the configuration you proposed. Is this basically what you were describing?

I may have misunderstood. Would this not cause the tone pots to function in reverse in one of the switch states?
Specifically, if the cap. is connected to the tone center lug, the 50s wiring (in which the cap would ordinarily be connected to the bottom tone pot lug) would cause the tone knob to function as 10 == bass / 0 == treble...?
And Modern to function as expected: 0 == bass / 10 == treble?

 

[CB91710]

The difference between 50s and modern is the attachment point to the volume pot.... putting the tone cap downstream of the volume pot, so as the volume pot is rolled off, high frequencies are retained.
With modern wiring, everything starts the same, with the 500k volume pot the only shunt to ground that impacts all frequencies.
But as the volume pot is rolled down, the pickup sees an unchanging resistance to ground through the tone cap for high frequencies, so as the resistance on the volume pot goes higher and higher, the high frequencies are more and more routed through the tone cap. With the volume pot at 50%, the DC resistance is 250k to the output and 500k to ground, but with the tone circuit in parallel, the high frequencies see 500k to ground before they even get to the volume pot, so the natural treble reduction of the volume pot takes a further hit through the tone circuit.

The tone pot side is still the same relationship... you are still using the same two lugs, the 3rd being ungrounded, so with the knob on "0" the full resistor path is there.

Electrically, it's: