50's wiring and the treble bleed mod

[darth Nihilus]

Have any of you found that the treble bleed mod is no longer needed when wiring your guitars 50's style? I have a 2008 Les Paul Standard with that stupid board and clip on jack and pickups. I replaced that board with CTS 500k pots and wired it 50's style.

I had installed a cap and resistor for the treble bleed mod but aside from the smoother volume taper with the caps, I didn't like what the caps did to the tone. It seemed to preserve the high but it brought down the mids and lows a lot which is something I never had happen using the treble bleed mod and modern wiring. I find that the 50's wiring with NO treble bleed mod works just fine. What do you guys and gals think?

 

[Papa]

One of the main characteristics of 50's wiring is that the tone does not darken as the volume is rolled down.
A treble bleed on 50's wiring is thus, unnecessary. (electronically speaking)

It is normally used in conjunction with modern wiring scheme which will darken as the volume is diminished.

You observation is, therefor, correct.

Papa

 

[darth Nihilus]

Thank you kindly, Papa. I suspected that adding the treble bleed mod to 50's wiring might be a bit redundant and it's good to see you verifying that.

Thank you very much!

 

[Papa]

There is an actual electronic explanation for it.
It has to do with what comes after what and the order in which this or that goes to ground.
I wish I could actually remember it.
I've read it before and it is kind of interesting.

Maybe one of our fellow members will be kind enough to explain.

(The worst part of getting old is....well....getting old)

Papa

 

[nicolasrivera]

For what its worth a treble bleed can work wonders for you regardless of the wiring, but what many people just don't want to do is to taylor that treble bleed to the specific guitar, pickup and amp you are using. Vendors sale a standard Treble bleed base on one specific tone or bleed, but i assure you its more times the wrong one then the right one for any specific guitar. The down side to this is that you have to spend some time and more money to active a custom tone, yet, if you are truly series about tone it should be a great experience.

 

[MATTM]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Nothing works better at screwing up the taper of a perfectly good pot than a treble bleed cap/resistor.

Contrary to some beliefs, its not necessary with 50's wiring. It serves no real purpose.

But hey, what do us Vendors know LOL!

 

[nicolasrivera]

It has worked for me becuase i experimet alot with it. Taking the time to actually experiment with things like this can open the ears too....

And the tapers work just fine in conjuction with the tone pot!

 

[yeti]

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Nothing works better at screwing up the taper of a perfectly good pot than a treble bleed cap/resistor.

Contrary to some beliefs, its not necessary with 50's wiring. It serves no real purpose.

But hey, what do us Vendors know LOL!

I agree that a Gibson with 50's wiring (P-90 or Humbucker) does not need any additional treble bleed. The volume control will still cut some treble but not nearly as bad as with modern wiring. The tone controls (assuming you're using good pots and caps) will be very useable but react differently. At full volume they will do what they always do but at reduced volume they'll act as some kind of gain attenuator plus tone control, very enjoyable. But I totally disagree with the above statement when it comes to fenders. A telecaster will sound great with the right treble bleed and the taper of those 250K pots still works fine.

 

[MATTM]

I agree that a Gibson with 50's wiring (P-90 or Humbucker) does not need any additional treble bleed. The volume control will still cut some treble but not nearly as bad as with modern wiring. The tone controls (assuming you're using good pots and caps) will be very useable but react differently. At full volume they will do what they always do but at reduced volume they'll act as some kind of gain attenuator plus tone control, very enjoyable. But I totally disagree with the above statement when it comes to fenders. A telecaster will sound great with the right treble bleed and the taper of those 250K pots still works fine.

Nothing wrong at all with experimenting. I'm of the opinion if the right pots with the right taper is used, it negates the need for the treble bleed mod. YMMV.

 

[MATTM]

It has worked for me becuase i experimet alot with it. Taking the time to actually experiment with things like this can open the ears too....

And the tapers work just fine in conjuction with the tone pot!

I hear ya (no pun intended )

It's not the tone pots that's the issue, it's the volumes.

 

[darth Nihilus]

Thanks to all of you. I decided that I don't need the treble bleed mod with 50's wiring. I removed the caps and resistors from the guitar and like it much more that way

 

[MATTM]

Thanks to all of you. I decided that I don't need the treble bleed mod with 50's wiring. I removed the caps and resistors from the guitar and like it much more that way

Glad to help

 

[Bigneil]

Treble bleed with 50's wiring is as useful as an ashtray on a motor bike.

 

[darth Nihilus]

Treble bleed with 50's wiring is as useful as an ashtray on a motor bike.

Haha, indeed sir!

 

[djlogan33]

Can someone verify that the “treble bleed mod” and the “Memphis Tone Circuit” is the same thing?

“Memphis Tone Circuit”, that are on the ES-339 guitars from the factory, is a logarithmic based system of volume control which creates 2 advantages: clarity and sweet high-end sounds do NOT roll off when volume is decreased (maintaining sharpness in tone at any volume) and the rate of volume increases/decreases are more natural, as the human ear would expect for each particular level (1 - 10) to sound."

Gibson