4 Henry: Brazilian market. WAKE UP, Mr. CEO!!

Marlboro13

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After reading the thread "US vs UK prices", I decided to do something similar.

Dear, Mr. Henry. Wake up! :rolleyes:

As I said in that thread, Brazil is the fifth economy in the world and has a bigger market than Canada, Australia, and all the europeans countries for guitars and musical instruments in general.

So why Gibson is not taking advantage of it? We wanna buy Gibsons...do you wanna sell it? it's a quite strange question, but that's the truth.

You guys don't have any plan for this huge musical market and we are still depending on crappy instruments, like your Epiphone, to play. Prices here are really f****d up due your lack of business vision. Everybody dreams with a Gibson, right? not the same w/ an Epiphone.

You just can find an Epiphone Les Paul Standard here for R$ 2.5K, it's something like USD 1.8K. You can imagine how much a Gibson LP Standard 2010 costs here...something like USD 5K. Is it good for Gibson? no. Is it good for this huge musical market dreaming about one? no.

Leo Fender had this vision. There was even a Fender made in Brazil for sometime, using brazilian woods. It's called Fender Southern Cross and quite rare to find outside Brazil. It has a honest price aswell...like a standard american Fender in US.

Stores here sell a Gibson for something like 5k USD, but it's quite rare someone buying it. You can see the guitar in the storefront for years most of the times.

If a brazilian wants a Gibson, he just spend a vacation in US, buy one, buy many more stuffs, and come back with a great vacation, a Gibson and others gears.

So, you could think: Hummm...I'm selling Epiphones there with Gibson's prices. They are so dumb for buying it and I'm the businessman of the year. :cool: Guess what? you're not. And your businessmen are blind as hell.

The fake chinese market is getting bigger here. The reason is obvious. People is paying prices like USD 1k for this fakes and it's considered a great deal down here...comparing to Epiphone and Gibson prices. So...the market for Epiphones is getting smaller and smaller...

We sure have high taxes. Something like 50%. But the problem is not the taxes. The problem is the Gibson abandoned market here. Because of that, the guitar pass throught "many hands" till it gets to the store.

A 50% tax is not the reason why we have prices 600% more expensive than US.

For example, Argentina (right at our south border) doesn't have this problem w/ Gibsons there. The prices are quite honest and the tax pretty much the same as Brazil. But Brazil is a much bigger market than Argentina.

The problem are the "many hands" I told. Gibson should chop these hands off the market as they did in Argentina by having a closer approach to the stores.

That's what the thread is all about.

Any idea how big Gibson's market can be if you think about Brazil...and (why not?) the whole south america? Probably bigger than US market.

So...WAKE UP, HENRY. I don't work for you, but I'm being more competent than your businessmen...and for FREE.

Sorry everyone for my bad english.

"My 2 cents".
 

Marlboro13

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Someone might be thinking: "oh, this guy should know that brazilian import tax is big."

I do. The tax for imports here is from 30% to 60%. Musical instruments are 60%.

We sure have high taxes. But the problem is not the taxes. The problem is the Gibson abandoned market here. Because of that, the guitar pass throught "many hands" till it gets to the store.

A 60% tax is not the reason why we have prices 600% more expensive than US.

For example, Argentina (right at our south border) doesn't have this problem w/ Gibsons there. The prices are quite honest and the tax pretty much the same as Brazil. But Brazil is a much bigger market than Argentina.
 

Oranjeaap

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Start your own importing bussiness and get rich in the proces? :)

I know your feeling. Gibson guitars are often a lot more expensive in Europe aswell, but those prices in Brazil are insane.

Perhaps you could bribe one of the tax officers and try to sneak in a container full of gibson guitars. Imagine the profit :shock:
 

Marlboro13

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Start your own importing bussiness and get rich in the proces? :)

Dude, that's exactly the problem. I would be another "hand" in the "many hands" I told. Gibson should chop these hands off the market. :hmm:

They should have a closer approach to the stores down here as they did in Argentina...and chop theses f***ing hands off the brazilian market. It's good for Gibson and it's good for us.

That's what the thread is all about.
 

SkyNet3D

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I think the problem with Gibson is the same everywhere. I'm in Portugal and they don't have proper representation in the Iberian Peninsula at all. To buy one i would have to get one sight unseen from Germany. Even when there isn't the problem of huge import taxes, they simply have ridiculous minimum order requirements impossible to meet in small markets. That cuts down the number of stores selling Gibson to just the biggest stores.

No way they're getting money from me like that. But at least I still have access to Tokai, so i'm fine.

Aren't there good builders in Brazil? Support your national products. I know you have excellent products in other areas, you probably have them in musical instruments as well.
 

Marlboro13

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There are some great builders here. My LPs are handmade replicas and I don't trade them for original Gibbys.

They are perfect replicas...not fakes w/ Gibson logo.

The "brazilian production line brands" are crap like a chinese guitar.
 

rustypaul

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My GF wants to go on vacation in Brazil. Would customs give me crap for bringing in a Gibson? What airport is the best to fly into? Where is the best vacation spot?
 

Ferrarimk13

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I can't really add to the discussion with guitars but rusty, my family and i visited Brazil last year and it was great! I really enjoyed Rio and the beaches were really nice but you just have to be a little careful with where you are. We had a few body guards but in all honesty, they were not necessary. It's made to be a lot more dangerous than it is. We flew into Sao Paolo and it was fine, but theres a good airport in Rio as well. They seem pretty strict there with what you bring so id be careful with the guitar.
 

Marlboro13

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I can't really add to the discussion with guitars but rusty, my family and i visited Brazil last year and it was great! I really enjoyed Rio and the beaches were really nice but you just have to be a little careful with where you are. We had a few body guards but in all honesty, they were not necessary. It's made to be a lot more dangerous than it is. We flew into Sao Paolo and it was fine, but theres a good airport in Rio as well. They seem pretty strict there with what you bring so id be careful with the guitar.

I live in Copacabana (Rio) since I was born. Rio is not dangerous as people think. You don't need bodyguards and stuff...it sounds like a real paranoia. Brazil is not like Colombia. Rio is a huge city. And like all big cities in the world, you must know where you are going. There are some real safe places and not to safe ones. It's the same in LA, NY, London...or any big city. You are not walking in Disneyland, right?

I'm 32 yo and never been robbed and stuff here...but I was robbed in Miami.
 

Marlboro13

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My GF wants to go on vacation in Brazil. Would customs give me crap for bringing in a Gibson? What airport is the best to fly into? Where is the best vacation spot?

Bring your Gibson and declare as personal item. You will not have any trouble doing it. We have lots of international airports...so it depends where you are going.
 

floyd84

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Note to self : Become millionaire, selling used Studios to Brazilians :laugh2:
 

r9in09

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It's probably not Gibson... I'm trying to do several deals with Brazil media companies and the problem is that there is Withholding tax in Brazil. This means that Brazil takes an additional 50% of the revenue when you try to take your money back out of the country!

This is why Brazil is largely self sufficient and they're not encouraging extrenal relations.

It's not just Gibson my friend, trust me on this.
 

KenG

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^^ That makes sense as well as the insane amount of duties/taxes that have ben alluded to. A point here.... Gibson doesn't deal directly with stores in Canada either. Yorkville Sound is the Canadian Distributor of Gibson (Epiphone as well). We lose out on the lifetime Warranty because of this infavour of one year with YS but our prices are remarkably close to the US prices retail-wise. It sounds like Brazil needs a Distributor to get Gibsons into the country, the prices would be more than US but you'd end up with fewer businesses in the loop. Gibson->Distributor->Music Store->buyer.
 

Marlboro13

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^^ That makes sense as well as the insane amount of duties/taxes that have ben alluded to. A point here.... Gibson doesn't deal directly with stores in Canada either. Yorkville Sound is the Canadian Distributor of Gibson (Epiphone as well). We lose out on the lifetime Warranty because of this infavour of one year with YS but our prices are remarkably close to the US prices retail-wise. It sounds like Brazil needs a Distributor to get Gibsons into the country, the prices would be more than US but you'd end up with fewer businesses in the loop. Gibson->Distributor->Music Store->buyer.

Exactly, KenG! That's the point! :thumb:
 

sonsofthedesert

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Good thread,
If only Gibson (and others) were run by musicians instead of economic rationalists!
The deals they do with importers in some foreign countries are quite insidious and elitist really.
I think a lot of large export companies are going to have to readjust their sights on what is considered a marketable product to the decimated markets they now have post GFC.

"Time wounds all heals"-Groucho Marx.

And as pointed out add sales taxes,duties and mark up, and what you have is an item that becomes a luxury item for most!
 

Ferrarimk13

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I live in Copacabana (Rio) since I was born. Rio is not dangerous as people think. You don't need bodyguards and stuff...it sounds like a real paranoia. Brazil is not like Colombia. Rio is a huge city. And like all big cities in the world, you must know where you are going. There are some real safe places and not to safe ones. It's the same in LA, NY, London...or any big city. You are not walking in Disneyland, right?

I'm 32 yo and never been robbed and stuff here...but I was robbed in Miami.

yep, exactly! My family was paranoid, so we had half a dozen bodyguards with us at all times. It was nice to know they were there but never did we feel threatened. The people were all very kind and the country was beautiful! Even in their "winter", the ocean was well over 70 degrees and was one of the best beaches ive ever went to.
 

Marlboro13

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yep, exactly! My family was paranoid, so we had half a dozen bodyguards with us at all times. It was nice to know they were there but never did we feel threatened. The people were all very kind and the country was beautiful! Even in their "winter", the ocean was well over 70 degrees and was one of the best beaches ive ever went to.

Dude, I've never seen people walking with bodyguards down here...unless you are Madonna or something similar. It's quite bizarre...and can be offensive aswell.
 

r9in09

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Exactly, KenG! That's the point! :thumb:

well, the point is that you need to reduce your excise withholding tax. Otherwise it's still the same issue -- getting the revenue back to Gibson is going to be a problem, thus they have to charge super high prices to NET the same amount.
 

SkyNet3D

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Dude, I've never seen people walking with bodyguards down here...unless you are Madonna or something similar. It's quite bizarre...and can be offensive aswell.

Well, but that's you that know where to go and where not to. I'm not saying you need bodyguards, but at least a guide. Like you said, it's the same in every big city, and even in smaller ones, you can come to Lisbon and get robbed all the same if you walk into the wrong part of town.

And i can see how you'd see it as offensive, but after what has been going on with the military taking over the favelas, you have to realize that will affect people's perception of what Rio is like.
I keep my perception in check because i regularly talk to friends who are from Rio, but if i didn't, you really couldn't blame me for thinking it was a war zone. :laugh2:
 

felipego

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Bring your Gibson and declare as personal item. You will not have any trouble doing it. We have lots of international airports...so it depends where you are going.

It's not more like that my friend. My friend have to payed a tax for his IBANEZ, and he declared as a personal item, under $500,00. But he was fined because he doesn't declared the price right, so he payed 100% of the price of the product, and now i will tell my story.

Ok, i am brazilian, from Bauru/SP. In october i was in Orlando on a vacation, so i returned back to brazil in 22th october. The air company, didn't let that i carry my gibson with me ( Like Hand Luggage ), so i have to take the guitar to a FRAGILE LUGGAGE place inside the Orlando Airport.

When i arrived brazil, my guitar wasn't here, i reported to the employes of the airoport, they told me to go home, then when the company find the guitar, they will send to me ( My dad is lawyer, so if they **** with me, certainly i would **** them :applause: ).

After 2 days of waiting, i received a call from the air company, that said that my guitar was found, and it was in a perfectly state, BUT THE CUSTOM CONFISCATED the guitar, and they only will free the guitar when i pay a tax.

Im waited about 2 weeks for the custom and company send to me the Paper that contains information about the tax. The price of the TAX: R$1.160,70 or something about $625,00 ( more then a Epiphone in US ). So i went to the bank and payed. The custom liberated the guitar in the same day, and the company sent to me via air mail. And arrived in the next day perfectly.

Im just warning, because since 1-oct in brazil, there is a new law in customs, and the employes of the custom, so they are much smart now, with products that is expensive in brazil.
 

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