3D gun plans website suspends downloads

Roberteaux

Super Mod
V.I.P. Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2010
Messages
34,932
Reaction score
163,212
How accurate are these guns under discussion, or for that matter the 1-hour homebuilds you're mentioning here?

Okie, then... here's the original FP-45 (the WW2 metallic version) in all its glory. The 3D weapon under discussion currently is basically just a plastic knockoff of the metallic type:


YeGhz2N.jpg

This was a single-shot pistol, designed to be air-dropped into Nazi-occupied areas and distributed among those who wished to resist the depredations of the Third Reich. It was shipped with 10 rounds and a wooden dowel to eject the expended shell casing from the weapon after it was fired.

It was chambered for .45 ACP.

The maximum effective range of this weapon was listed as a whole 8 feet. But mind you: they weren't saying that you'd be shooting tight groups with this one at 8 feet-- just that one could reasonably expect to hit a human being up to 8 feet away with it.

The plastic model probably features all the same performance, but isn't stout enough to handle .45 ACP ammunition.

***************​

Though the original idea was to air drop tons of these, the weapon was also designed to be very easy to duplicate by those with access to common hand tools and half a lick of sense. As you can see, it was barely more sophisticated than some of the zip guns that Cooljuk posted photos of earlier.

The recommended procedure of use with this weapon was to walk up to an armed occupier (or one of their hated sympathizers), push the thing up against the poor bastard's noggin or neck, and to let him have it. Following this, the idea was to grab whatever weapon the person happened to have on him and scamper away with it for further use against the enemy. A little comic book pamphlet to show how to use it and where to shoot somebody with it was shipped along with the weapon, the extractor dowel, and the ten rounds of ammunition.

Crasseux boche! Vive la libération! :laugh2:

It was only in production for 6 months in 1942, to the tune of 500K units. Despite the large number of 'em slapped together, not so many were ever air dropped. It seems that Ike and most of the other big military shot-callers didn't see the value of the Liberator pistol and thought that the Sten gave you more bang for your buck.

It also appears that those guys figured that somebody could do the same job with a kitchen knife, or a rock in a sock, or even a sharpened toothbrush handle, like the ones prison inmates occasionally murder one another with.

However, the OSS did see that the thing might be useful, and apparently sent some 25,000 of the little buggers to occupied Europe, where it was documented as having been used at least once to knock off an officer of the Gestapo. Other than that, it doesn't seem to have a well-recorded or distinguished track record as a weapon of war... or even of insurgency.

***************​

I don't know if it's still there, but back in the Seventies there was a somewhat similar weapon on display in the JFK Special Warfare Museum at Ft. Bragg, NC. This was a cast epoxy firearm-- a gun that was literally made out of hardened glue. It was a double-barreled weapon, sort of like an over/under derringer.

This weapon didn't even use metallic cartridge cases for its projectile. Instead, one packed guncotton, standard smokeless powder, or even black powder into the barrels and then loaded a round lead ball of about .32 caliber into the barrels and packed the mess down (with a leftover Liberator ejection dowel, perhaps). The barrels were reinforced by aluminum tubes that looked like they might have once been the barrel of a fountain pen, or maybe an automotive radio antennae.

The ignition system wasn't a cartridge primer or percussion cap, but was instead a small battery, a couple of wires, and a light bulb's coil filament that was threaded through a small hole at the base of the barrel. The trigger was a simple on/off push button. When you pressed the button, both barrels went off at once.

Pretty neat, eh? But as was the case with the Liberator pistol (and the Welrod, and a couple of other field expedient weapon types) nobody much seemed to wish to use it...

***************​

What the weapon that is the subject of this thread happens to be is nothing more than a 3D printed, plastic version of the Liberator-- except that the cartridge type that would be suitable for use would be something *very* low pressure, like a .25 ACP, a subsonic .22 short, or something along those lines.

Also: thank you for the compliment! :)

--R :thumb:
 
Last edited:

Ermghoti

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 27, 2009
Messages
6,391
Reaction score
8,149
Ignorant as I am, I'll take your word for it.

What concerns me is whether these could be used for one-off jobs, which is why I was asking about accuracy. How accurate are these guns under discussion, or for that matter the 1-hour homebuilds you're mentioning here?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just trying to gather info.

The average handgun shooting occurs at a range of less that 10'. Furthermore, if somebody has decided to employ a single shot pistol, they aren't getting into a gunfight, they are executing someone whom they have either approached completely by surprise, or have already subdued or cowed into compliance. Accuracy would be a trivial concern.
 

Thumpalumpacus

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Messages
76,200
Reaction score
187,691
Okie, then... here's the original FP-45 (the WW2 metallic version) in all its glory. The 3D weapon under discussion currently is basically just a plastic knockoff of the metallic type:


YeGhz2N.jpg

This was a single-shot pistol, designed to be air-dropped into Nazi-occupied areas and distributed among those who wished to resist the depredations of the Third Reich. It was shipped with 10 rounds and a wooden dowel to eject the expended shell casing from the weapon after it was fired.

It was chambered for .45 ACP.

The maximum effective range of this weapon was listed as a whole 8 feet. But mind you: they weren't saying that you'd be shooting tight groups with this one at 8 feet-- just that one could reasonably expect to hit a human being up to 8 feet away with it.

The plastic model probably features all the same performance, but isn't stout enough to handle .45 ACP ammunition.

***************​

Though the original idea was to air drop tons of these, the weapon was also designed to be very easy to duplicate by those with access to common hand tools and half a lick of sense. As you can see, it was barely more sophisticated than some of the zip guns that Cooljuk posted photos of earlier.

The recommended procedure of use with this weapon was to walk up to an armed occupier (or one of their hated sympathizers), push the thing up against the poor bastard's noggin or neck, and to let him have it. Following this, the idea was to grab whatever weapon the person happened to have on him and scamper away with it for further use against the enemy. A little comic book pamphlet to show how to use it and where to shoot somebody with it was shipped along with the weapon, the extractor dowel, and the ten rounds of ammunition.

Crasseux boche! Vive la libération! :laugh2:

It was only in production for 6 months in 1942, to the tune of 500K units. Despite the large number of 'em slapped together, not so many were ever air dropped. It seems that Ike and most of the other big military shot-callers didn't see the value of the Liberator pistol and thought that the Sten gave you more bang for your buck.

It also appears that those guys figured that somebody could do the same job with a kitchen knife, or a rock in a sock, or even a sharpened toothbrush handle, like the ones prison inmates occasionally murder one another with.

However, the OSS did see that the thing might be useful, and apparently sent some 25,000 of the little buggers to occupied Europe, where it was documented as having been used at least once to knock off an officer of the Gestapo. Other than that, it doesn't seem to have a well-recorded or distinguished track record as a weapon of war... or even of insurgency.

***************​

I don't know if it's still there, but back in the Seventies there was a somewhat similar weapon on display in the JFK Special Warfare Museum at Ft. Bragg, NC. This was a cast epoxy firearm-- a gun that was literally made out of hardened glue. It was a double-barreled weapon, sort of like an over/under derringer.

This weapon didn't even use metallic cartridge cases for its projectile. Instead, one packed guncotton, standard smokeless powder, or even black powder into the barrels and then loaded a round lead ball of about .32 caliber into the barrels and packed the mess down (with a leftover Liberator ejection dowel, perhaps). The barrels were reinforced by aluminum tubes that looked like they might have once been the barrel of a fountain pen, or maybe an automotive radio antennae.

The ignition system wasn't a cartridge primer or percussion cap, but was instead a small battery, a couple of wires, and a light bulb's coil filament that was threaded through a small hole at the base of the barrel. The trigger was a simple on/off push button. When you pressed the button, both barrels went off at once.

Pretty neat, eh? But as was the case with the Liberator pistol (and the Welrod, and a couple of other field expedient weapon types) nobody much seemed to wish to use it...

***************​

What the weapon that is the subject of this thread happens to be is nothing more than a 3D printed, plastic version of the Liberator-- except that the cartridge type that would be suitable for use would be something *very* low pressure, like a .25 ACP, a subsonic .22 short, or something along those lines.

Also: thank you for the compliment! :)

--R :thumb:

And thank you for the info, good sir.
 

Marshall & Moonshine

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
31,885
Reaction score
81,396
The average handgun shooting occurs at a range of less that 10'. Furthermore, if somebody has decided to employ a single shot pistol, they aren't getting into a gunfight, they are executing someone whom they have either approached completely by surprise, or have already subdued or cowed into compliance. Accuracy would be a trivial concern.

In which case, it’s a murder being committed by a murderer, who is going to murder the soon-to-be murder victim whether the 3D printer is out of toner or not. He’s gonna use a gun if he can, a knife if he must. But it’s gonna get done.
The gun isn’t the issue.
The murder is the victim.
“Well, this way, he can’t print a gun...”
Right.
You’re talking about a hit.
It’s gonna get done.
Like mentioned before, plastic ghost untraceable easily makeable guns is the scary paper tiger they’ll use to further erode our liberty.
 

Howard2k

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
24,825
Reaction score
44,797
Take "gun" out of the equation. What if this were an effort to take information away for some other purpose.

Like artificial limbs, but the AMA doesn't want the info out there.
DIY plumbing/electrical fix, but the plumber/electrical unions are opposed.
DIY auto plans, but GM/Ford/Chrysler are opposed.

You're equating a print at home firearm to an artificial limb?

What about nuclear suitcase plans? Or plans for the Grand Gulf 1 power plant? Or the nuclear missile codes?

Obviously there are legitimate reasons to censor information.
 

OHIOSTEVE

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
7,932
Reaction score
10,532
You're equating a print at home firearm to an artificial limb?

What about nuclear suitcase plans? Or plans for the Grand Gulf 1 power plant? Or the nuclear missile codes?

Obviously there are legitimate reasons to censor information.
Youre equating a plastic firearm to nuclear weaponry?
 

OHIOSTEVE

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
7,932
Reaction score
10,532
So anyone can have a firearm right? The mentally ill. The deranged. The convicted felon. Children. Fender owners. Anyone.

Obviously not. The issue is slightly more complex.
Those people have been LEGALLY found ineligible for firearm ownership. Although I disagree with the felony thing. Once your time is served your rights should be reinstated......that aside if you can legally own a firearm you should be able to legally own ANY firearm. Our firearm laws are ridiculous. I cannot own a short barreled shotgun BUT I can buy a handgun that shoots shotgun shells...... this is just more hand wringing and fear mongering.
 

45WinMag

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2009
Messages
8,244
Reaction score
18,738
Take "gun" out of the equation. What if this were an effort to take information away for some other purpose.

Like artificial limbs, but the AMA doesn't want the info out there.
DIY plumbing/electrical fix, but the plumber/electrical unions are opposed.
DIY auto plans, but GM/Ford/Chrysler are opposed.

Here's the situation with a book inserted in place of guns:

I have written a book with passages that are considered blasphemous and illegal in a group of countries.

The US has a treaty with those countries barring the transfer of such written works to their countries.

I want to publish my book online. State Department bars me from doing so because digital copies might be downloaded in countries prohibited by the treaty.

I sue the State Department for violating my First Amendment rights to publish my book.

State Department realizes they are going to lose the case in court and offers a settlement removing the bar to publication, and I accept.

Eight states decide they don't like the content of my book, so they petition a Federal judge.

The Federal judge bars publication of my book.​
 

Howard2k

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
24,825
Reaction score
44,797
Youre equating a plastic firearm to nuclear weaponry?

i) It's a demonstration of hyperbole. Firearms are weapons, meant to kill things. Although you can kill someone with an artificial limb too, that's not the intended purpose.

ii) I'm showing that some information is important to censor. You can try to spin this any way you want, but you agree with this point too. So we both agree that in some cases censorship is required, now it's just a question of where we draw the line.
 

Howard2k

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2009
Messages
24,825
Reaction score
44,797
Those people have been LEGALLY found ineligible for firearm ownership. Although I disagree with the felony thing. Once your time is served your rights should be reinstated......that aside if you can legally own a firearm you should be able to legally own ANY firearm. Our firearm laws are ridiculous. I cannot own a short barreled shotgun BUT I can buy a handgun that shoots shotgun shells...... this is just more hand wringing and fear mongering.

I'm not trying to poke holes in your argument, but I don't think you're thinking this through.

Let's say I'm a legal firearm owner. I live in the US, I'm over 18, and I own an AR15. I'm not barred from owning the firearm.

I then go and shoot someone in the head in cold blood.

At that point, I have not been declared ineligible by a judge to own a firearm. Sure, I've just killed someone, and there is no doubt that I'm a criminal, I just haven't been convicted. But because I'm not convicted yet, you and M&M support my right to carry this firearm until judgement is passed.

Got it. :)

As for firearms laws, all firearms laws tend to be somewhat ridiculous. We have similar absurdities here where a 104mm barrel is illegal, but a 106mm barrel is not. Because those 2mm are the difference between death to all life as we know it, and puppies and daisies. But hey, as I said, if laws should be changed then they should be changed. I don't agree that we say "that's the law" and that's that.
 

OHIOSTEVE

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2015
Messages
7,932
Reaction score
10,532
i) It's a demonstration of hyperbole. Firearms are weapons, meant to kill things. Although you can kill someone with an artificial limb too, that's not the intended purpose.

ii) I'm showing that some information is important to censor. You can try to spin this any way you want, but you agree with this point too. So we both agree that in some cases censorship is required, now it's just a question of where we draw the line.
So keeping the masses ignorant in order to keep the masses controlled is ok with you?
 

Latest Threads



Top