$30,000 burst - is this legit? The Grainger/Corby burst

Liam

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I have a slightly different take. I think it's a genuinely interesting guitar, and while I am 99-100% confident it's creation had very little to do with any Gibson factory, the guitar's true back story is probably a really colourful one. Fakery tends to be as much in the way something is sold as anything to do with the item or artefact in itself. I personally think "Waldstein" is quite possibly a relatively early example of something that went on to become maybe not commonplace, but clearly a few people have since made "good copies" of the 1959 Les Paul Standard. The price is a little way north of what I'd be willing to pay to have a good look inside and out (and it may well be a great sounding and playing guitar, which has to be worth something).

If the price of that guitar ever matches what I'd be willing to pay, I'd love to show it to a few people to confirm its likely origins and history. I am pretty sure it will have been from this side of the Atlantic, and while some of the detail is a little crude compared to later copies/fakes, it's a nice little tributary of rock history. Its occasional foray onto internet forums like this one just add to the general amusement - I do remember in 2010 that the "wrong way round" control cavity made me chuckle. I would part with real money if it plays well, but it's just not worth $30,000 to me.

Liam
 

eric ernest

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If the price of that guitar ever matches what I'd be willing to pay, I'd love to show it to a few people to confirm its likely origins and history.
That's most likely indeterminable. Over the years I've seen several dozen fakes that were being represented as real Bursts....But that top carve is so over-the-top ridiculous!!!

I had Waldstein in my possession for several months...and I've never seen another Les Paul copy like THAT.
 

jodybriggs

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If it was real. Joe Bonnamassa or one of the members of the elitist back slapping vintage club rock star good ol boys would of beat you to it long time ago, and it would be in a case somewhere stacked up like cord wood with another 3 or 4 dozen.
That shit pisses me off too. I remember watching a video of Bonamassa talking about acquiring some of his insane "MINE, ALL MINE! collection and off handedly going into how he bought like 3 or 4 vintage Gibsons in one day. Like some random person goes antiquing. Yeah, this one was 14 thousand, then I just bought this one on the way out the door, it was 18 thousand then I went to some guys garage and he had 2 vintage Gibsons so I bought them too. OK, sure. He has the money and he can do what he wants with it, but it's just hoarding at that point. There's no curation or special connection to most of the stuff he has. It's just vintage gear and he's buying it up. It's only slightly less distasteful than millionaire businessmen buying up 58 and 59 LPs as investments to store in a vault beside their art, jewellery and car collections. To be sold on when the prices saturate after they created the scarcity in the first place. Anyways, rant over.
 

SASouth

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That shit pisses me off too. I remember watching a video of Bonamassa talking about acquiring some of his insane "MINE, ALL MINE! collection and off handedly going into how he bought like 3 or 4 vintage Gibsons in one day. Like some random person goes antiquing. Yeah, this one was 14 thousand, then I just bought this one on the way out the door, it was 18 thousand then I went to some guys garage and he had 2 vintage Gibsons so I bought them too. OK, sure. He has the money and he can do what he wants with it, but it's just hoarding at that point. There's no curation or special connection to most of the stuff he has. It's just vintage gear and he's buying it up. It's only slightly less distasteful than millionaire businessmen buying up 58 and 59 LPs as investments to store in a vault beside their art, jewellery and car collections. To be sold on when the prices saturate after they created the scarcity in the first place. Anyways, rant over.
People buy what they like or always wanted, not as a vendetta to deprive poor starving artists of instruments or to corner the market. Guitars are a poor investment when compared to other investment opportunities available. Eventually most people will lose money as we saw during the market correction in 2008.

If they now can afford to buy what they like and always wanted who are you to criticize? If you had the spare money you would absolutely do the same.
 

BigJim

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That shit pisses me off too. I remember watching a video of Bonamassa talking about acquiring some of his insane "MINE, ALL MINE! collection and off handedly going into how he bought like 3 or 4 vintage Gibsons in one day. Like some random person goes antiquing. Yeah, this one was 14 thousand, then I just bought this one on the way out the door, it was 18 thousand then I went to some guys garage and he had 2 vintage Gibsons so I bought them too. OK, sure. He has the money and he can do what he wants with it, but it's just hoarding at that point. There's no curation or special connection to most of the stuff he has. It's just vintage gear and he's buying it up. It's only slightly less distasteful than millionaire businessmen buying up 58 and 59 LPs as investments to store in a vault beside their art, jewellery and car collections. To be sold on when the prices saturate after they created the scarcity in the first place. Anyways, rant over.
They also give them lame names, every single one.

I stopped following him and "the other" LP Forum dude. When they post their "turds" and endless stories of "Lazarus", it's done with such an air of "look at how cool/rich we are", it takes the fun out of it all...
 

jodybriggs

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People buy what they like or always wanted, not as a vendetta to deprive poor starving artists of instruments or to corner the market. Guitars are a poor investment when compared to other investment opportunities available. Eventually most people will lose money as we saw during the market correction in 2008.

If they now can afford to buy what they like and always wanted who are you to criticize? If you had the spare money you would absolutely do the same.
Which I pointed out in my comment
 

guitarbob123

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They also give them lame names, every single one.

I stopped following him and "the other" LP Forum dude. When they post their "turds" and endless stories of "Lazarus", it's done with such an air of "look at how cool/rich we are", it takes the fun out of it all...
You know how many people on other guitar forums look at places like MLP and think the same thing about the users simply for owning a Gibson instead of an Epiphone?

The vintage owners are mostly guys with a huge passion for the instruments and who have compiled a huge amount of information and research into vintage instruments. They play them and take care of them. There’s a very select few individuals who hide away and vault their guitars and those guys don’t go on guitar forums (at least not visibly)

I feel more than a tad of jealousy when I see people focusing entirely on the monetary aspect. What are people who have access to plenty of money meant to do if they don’t want to give it all away? I don’t think I’ve ever seen a single owner publicly state how much they paid for their burst(s) so I can’t see how there’s this ‘look how much I paid’ attitude anyway.

There’s people I know who think it’s insane to spend the money a Historic costs on a guitar, but those same people wouldn’t even raise an eyebrow if I went and spent 30-40k on a new car (even though one loses a higher percentage of its value, costs a huge amount more to maintain, won’t function for as long and would bring significantly less joy)

This attitude of ‘how dare people spend their money how they want!?’ makes me think of people who ‘boycott’ fashion brands like Gucci for using fur but they’ve never shopped anywhere more expensive than Levi’s. At the end of the day, those who are being hated on won’t give a damn.

EDIT: As for the ‘there’s no curation’ of their collections comment, quite often these guys (such as Joe B, as always an easy target) have met the original owners and collected so many photos and all the back story to each of their guitars and document all of this stuff. Joe is a huge fan of knowing the history of the instruments and going for those with a story rather than the shiniest, mintiest collectors condition guitars. That’s just a specific example but again, it applies to most burst owners that post on forums.
 
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redking

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I have a slightly different take. I think it's a genuinely interesting guitar, and while I am 99-100% confident it's creation had very little to do with any Gibson factory, the guitar's true back story is probably a really colourful one. Fakery tends to be as much in the way something is sold as anything to do with the item or artefact in itself. I personally think "Waldstein" is quite possibly a relatively early example of something that went on to become maybe not commonplace, but clearly a few people have since made "good copies" of the 1959 Les Paul Standard. The price is a little way north of what I'd be willing to pay to have a good look inside and out (and it may well be a great sounding and playing guitar, which has to be worth something).

If the price of that guitar ever matches what I'd be willing to pay, I'd love to show it to a few people to confirm its likely origins and history. I am pretty sure it will have been from this side of the Atlantic, and while some of the detail is a little crude compared to later copies/fakes, it's a nice little tributary of rock history. Its occasional foray onto internet forums like this one just add to the general amusement - I do remember in 2010 that the "wrong way round" control cavity made me chuckle. I would part with real money if it plays well, but it's just not worth $30,000 to me.

Liam
I would agree - I think a guitar like this could have been interesting in the same vein that the Kris Derrig LP is interesting. Unfortunately, this one doesn't have the same story to tell to make it as interesting as the Derrig guitar because of who played it.
 

parts

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Interesting thread..
..I was on the road most of the 70s..so I wondered why I never heard of the Baby's..so googled a couple tunes..and now I know why..
Pablum..but I would never take the shovel out of anyone's hands working..just not something could have listened to...
 

rykus

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I would probably pay 10% of the asking price. Does have a nice look too it in a high-school woodworkshop kinda way lol. Be interesting if you could find any real history but other than the forementioned waldstien threads I doubt any would ever surface.

I liked the 58/63 explorer with the Derringer headstock too but not at those crazy prices lol
 

Rogueaverage616

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The top of those saddles look pointy, real bursts have more rounded over “Blunter” saddles right?
 


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