20w Is Enough

Tim Plains

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Yup, 20w tube amps are plenty. I've even used 5w Swarts with drummers and had no problems being heard.
 

ehb

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A bit of pondering/discombobulation for you to ignore...




From the tao....
One can attenuate the too much....but one cannot create the ain't there....
tao of edro




I'm not saying drag in a HiWatt 200w full stack....but don't think you'll get by with any less than a DI box. :cool2:

You really ain't gotta have an amp/cab on stage anymore with the quality of floors available today...

Some folks ain't gonna get moist on this but it is what it is.

It is "cool" to have all kinds of horsepower available behind you. Been there myself with Marshalls and others.... Now we have plenty of mics, plenty of channels, plenty of floors, and plenty of power.... We had the big ass iron back then as to be heard....We don't need it today... Mondo dBs creates more problems than it solves...sometimes on a grand scale....

Examine logistics for a sec: Cab is behind the bug catching plane of you ears. Everybody else is almost on the plane that shoots directly in you ear's bore holes.... That in itself.... Think it out...

What is mondo cool beanery is when you have your cab and floors blended together in that no matter where you turn, you hear basically the same....

No more losing yourself facing forward or walking across stage....no more being cancelled out by the drummer banging on that damn doppler effect from hell ride cymbal that AIN'T a freaking crash/bash/trash....

Some say 'I wanna hear my cab...waaaah waaah waaaaah... You are, dumbass. Cab into mic into floors....

WIth the floors blended with cab, you don't need as much volume, popcorn munchers out front are not being killed, and on stage, your guitar sounds cooler'n shit Rusty, because you are standing in the middle of your "|||| TONEZ, Mang |||" and not freaking killing people out front.... Plus, the bartender ain't hitting you with the laser eyes from hell...

Floors and cab with a blast shield is the ultimate... Crank the amp if you must but the blast shield in front redirects... Tilted forward or with side plates, it will redirect and spread in the upward direction... Think it out....

Some folks are just not willing to even entertain trying something different.... One side of the coin is ego, other side intentional/unintentional ignorance...

Like it or not, change can be cool....

The funniest things on the planet"

"Tubez, mang. I ain't even gonna ever play thru no solid state shit."
- Look down at you stomp board, dumbass....

"I wanna hear my own cab, damnit."
- You use In-Ears, dumbass.


I remember the first time on stage with side fills way back. (Think a JBL 4350 on each side) Oh my homey Jeebus, it was unreal.... Could hear everything.... We had all stage volumes down and relied on floors and sides...


JoBo uses blast shields in front of all his amps.
Jobo uses blast shields as high or higher than top of combo so Jobo ain't hearing them on stage.
Jobo uses In-Ears.
Some folks will just nod in agreement with the preceding JoBo reference, some will explore Lexan and piano hinges at Lowes/orangebox/RuralKing/Marvin's/etc., and some will think 'WTF does JoBo know.''.... Typical....


My work here is done...


:cool2:
 

EndGame00

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Depends on who you ask.... And there's no definite answer.... 20-watt is enough for some, others think even a 50-watt isn't enough for their need...
 

nomadh

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Maybe more accurate is 20 watts should be enough. And if it isn't I probably don't want to be on that stage or at that bar?
 

80smetalhead

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I’m digging my 20 watt Marshall Studio Classic for gigs lately. I also have a Splawn 40 watt Street Rod and the 50 watt EVH 5150 III head & cab. Although the Marshall has been fine at most 200 or so size venues I like to have higher watt options for bigger rooms. Or my ever changing moods lol
51D4C263-BE57-43D1-A56B-1989AE9CE244.jpeg
 

nomadh

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Simple numbers say going from a 5 watt amp to a 50 everything being equal will double the sound vol, correct?
So going from a 100 to a 60 or 50 may only be a marginal change? If a speaker efficiency change of only 3b can double the vol then its possible a 30 watt with 101db/w rating could swamp a 100w amp with 95 db/w rating.
Then I find there are tube watts and solid state watts. I find most any low watt tube amp around 10 or 15 watt will at least keep up with a ss 40 to 80 watts. Then I think I've seen a pattern of class A/B tube amps out power single ended class A amps. If I'm remembering my terminology.
These are just some of my basic rules of thumb I go by. Is this breadly correct or did I drink some snake oil here?
 

jamhandy

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I agree with the OP. I also have a Mesa Subway Rocket (Reverb) and at 22 watts, and only 37 pounds its all I've needed for years. If you need any more than this, grab a microphone and run it into the mains. Back in the 70s when I was a teenager I might have thought it was cool to make my ears ring for hours after band rehearsal. And I didn't mind lugging huge gear around. Today, technology has advanced and replaced the huge gear we used to lug around.

At church, I don't even use an amp. They want a quiet stage volume so the sound guy can control everything better. So the last pedal on my pedalboard is a GFI System Cabzeus. It has stereo XLR outs, and also does doubling (like a TC Electronic Mimiq) and is a direct box as well as a speaker emulator etc, etc. I get all my effects, overdrive, etc from my pedals.

Or (if tube amp overdrive is your thing) they have the amp of your choice in a isolation box enclosrue way back stage some where and a Radial SGI (Studio Guitar Interface) RX/TX Long Cable Run System. You come off your pedalboard, into one of the two-box systems, it runs as far as needed via XLR to the isolation cab, and out the other of the two box system. -- Everything is monitored in a pro system in-ear monitoring system. No more loud stage volume needed, ever. No wedge monitors needed, either. The church I play at seats 4000 people.

Technology wins.

IMHO, the only need for a 4x12 cab, etc, etc these days is for bragging rights, or if you play at stadium levels in small clubs, helping the customers have early on-set hearing loss. In clubs I do blues and jazz, so I don't need ear splitting stadium levels. And like I said, if my little Mesa combo needs to fill a large room, grab a microphone and run it into the mains.

I would however secretly love a Splawn Quickrod half stack... haha...
 
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jamhandy

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Maybe more accurate is 20 watts should be enough. And if it isn't I probably don't want to be on that stage or at that bar?
I was at an after hours blues jam at a mom and pop music store one time... The drummer literally had 3 drum sticks duct taped together for his drum punishing beaters. He was the loudest, most obnoxiously annoying drummer I have ever met. He would drown out every guitar solo by making extra hits of I guess what he thought was dynamics on his cymbals.

There is a point when it does become "too loud."
 

LeftyF2003

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I’m digging my 20 watt Marshall Studio Classic for gigs lately. I also have a Splawn 40 watt Street Rod and the 50 watt EVH 5150 III head & cab. Although the Marshall has been fine at most 200 or so size venues I like to have higher watt options for bigger rooms. Or my ever changing moods lol
View attachment 426293
For bigger venues I prefer to mic a small amp and keep the stage volume down.
 

Freddy G

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20 watts is not enough for me. I don't want an amp that I have to push to the max on stage. While it's glorious to be just on the verge of the output tubes going non linear, I don't like going so much further that the thing is splatting out with no headroom left.
 

Freddy G

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It's not enough


That's just such crap, no offense. It's also said about every amp manufacturer out there: "But these are 20 Mesa Watts!" has been a common refrain on all of the Mesa threads I've been reading (researching a lot of Mesas lately).

Watts are watts, and tube amps are all very near each other regarding efficiency (as long as you're comparing the same class to each other). It's not rocket science: you bias your tubes properly, size your transformers properly, and impedance match the speakers. Really the only large variable is the efficiency of the speaker.

FWIW, I owned a Maz 18 1x12" for a while, and it was noticeably quieter than my old Traynor YGM-3, even after a tube swap. This idea of "Dr Z Watts" or "Marshall Watts" or "Mesa Watts" or "Suhr Watts" is just total crap.

True true true! Watts are watts. The only thing you can really say is that you can get louder with tubes than solid state at the same wattage rating. Why? Because when solid state hits it's ceiling that's it, no more gas in the tank. When tubes hit their ceiling, it's only that the ceiling is rated for linear operation... they can still amplify a lot more as the output goes into distortion.
 

Freddy G

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A bit of pondering/discombobulation for you to ignore...




From the tao....
One can attenuate the too much....but one cannot create the ain't there....
tao of edro




I'm not saying drag in a HiWatt 200w full stack....but don't think you'll get by with any less than a DI box. :cool2:

You really ain't gotta have an amp/cab on stage anymore with the quality of floors available today...

Some folks ain't gonna get moist on this but it is what it is.

It is "cool" to have all kinds of horsepower available behind you. Been there myself with Marshalls and others.... Now we have plenty of mics, plenty of channels, plenty of floors, and plenty of power.... We had the big ass iron back then as to be heard....We don't need it today... Mondo dBs creates more problems than it solves...sometimes on a grand scale....

Examine logistics for a sec: Cab is behind the bug catching plane of you ears. Everybody else is almost on the plane that shoots directly in you ear's bore holes.... That in itself.... Think it out...

What is mondo cool beanery is when you have your cab and floors blended together in that no matter where you turn, you hear basically the same....

No more losing yourself facing forward or walking across stage....no more being cancelled out by the drummer banging on that damn doppler effect from hell ride cymbal that AIN'T a freaking crash/bash/trash....

Some say 'I wanna hear my cab...waaaah waaah waaaaah... You are, dumbass. Cab into mic into floors....

WIth the floors blended with cab, you don't need as much volume, popcorn munchers out front are not being killed, and on stage, your guitar sounds cooler'n shit Rusty, because you are standing in the middle of your "|||| TONEZ, Mang |||" and not freaking killing people out front.... Plus, the bartender ain't hitting you with the laser eyes from hell...

Floors and cab with a blast shield is the ultimate... Crank the amp if you must but the blast shield in front redirects... Tilted forward or with side plates, it will redirect and spread in the upward direction... Think it out....

Some folks are just not willing to even entertain trying something different.... One side of the coin is ego, other side intentional/unintentional ignorance...

Like it or not, change can be cool....

The funniest things on the planet"

"Tubez, mang. I ain't even gonna ever play thru no solid state shit."
- Look down at you stomp board, dumbass....

"I wanna hear my own cab, damnit."
- You use In-Ears, dumbass.


I remember the first time on stage with side fills way back. (Think a JBL 4350 on each side) Oh my homey Jeebus, it was unreal.... Could hear everything.... We had all stage volumes down and relied on floors and sides...


JoBo uses blast shields in front of all his amps.
Jobo uses blast shields as high or higher than top of combo so Jobo ain't hearing them on stage.
Jobo uses In-Ears.
Some folks will just nod in agreement with the preceding JoBo reference, some will explore Lexan and piano hinges at Lowes/orangebox/RuralKing/Marvin's/etc., and some will think 'WTF does JoBo know.''.... Typical....


My work here is done...


:cool2:
Man, you must have a serious case of PTRCSD.....( post traumatic ride cymbal stress disorder.) Mean old drummer!
 

ErictheRed

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True true true! Watts are watts. The only thing you can really say is that you can get louder with tubes than solid state at the same wattage rating. Why? Because when solid state hits it's ceiling that's it, no more gas in the tank. When tubes hit their ceiling, it's only that the ceiling is rated for linear operation... they can still amplify a lot more as the output goes into distortion.
Not even only what humans perceive as distortion, but also that warm compression that still sounds clean.
 




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