20w Is Enough

scozz

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30 watts is less than 2 db louder than 20 watts, barely noticeable. 50 watts is only 4 db louder than 20 watts! To be twice as loud as a 20 watt amp you’d need a 200 watt amp!
 

dc007

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Choose wisely......you want clean headroom and pedals or straight in and let it rip. Both are fun. As I have gotten older I find I like the stage a good bit quieter and just mic it so low watts gets the job done.
 

scozz

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Choose wisely......you want clean headroom and pedals or straight in and let it rip. Both are fun. As I have gotten older I find I like the stage a good bit quieter and just mic it so low watts gets the job done.
Absolutely,...as far as I’m concerned higher wattage has more to do with headroom than loudness. Speakers have an effect on headroom too.
 

ehb

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Entire system efficiency.....

20 efficient watts is louder'n two hells.....

I remember decades back, hearing an 'audiophile' class stereo that was only twenty watts per channel, but efficiency through the roof... I could never afford that system but homey shrit, it was unreal clean and so damn loud it hurt...

I well remember decades back, pulling Celestions out of 4x12s and putting in high dollar JBL, EV, Cetec-Gauss speakers.... Major difference back then.... Ungodly difference....



On another note, I did a service call last night at a small local music hall.... The fronts were FREAKING MINT shorty Altec mini-kinda-sorta Perks or mini A7 with the FREAKING HORN on top.... and had TWO of the big ALTEC FLOOR WEDGES. Mint. Freaking Mint.

Want to venture a guess on what drivers? (shut it, Freddy).... Damn M I N T.....

I was tempted to whip out my check book.... M I N T ....


I needed a nerve pill after seeing that.... MINT.... No Scratches. NONE.... Freaking MINT!
 

Dilver

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Me too. 18 watt Fender Champ II with a Reverend 1030 speaker. Killer tones, plenty loud and tremendous portability.
 

Gtarzan81

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That’s for sure. I had a 20 W Dr. Z that would peel the paint off the walls. Another guy’s 20 watter may not be nearly as loud, depends on a lot of variables.
Dr. Z actually has a FAQ video about this.
 

fry

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Dr. Z actually has a FAQ video about this.
I know a guy that ordered a Maz 18 from Dr. Z. When he got it, it was so loud, he thought there was something wrong with it. He called Dr. Z directly, and was told “oh, our amps are not normal watts, they are Z watts“. Extremely efficient, they get the absolute most out of every watt. I talked to another guy that had the same amp, and had a similar story. He ended up going with the Maz 8 for live gigs, and it was perfect for him.
 

rjwilson37

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I picked up the Mesa Subway Rocket Reverb here in California not to long after I arrived. Great little amp, keeps it together nicely with the 10" speaker, you would never know it is only 20w for sure. Would love to hear some clips if you have some. These amps were a golden jewel back when they first came out, you could get them for like $500-$600 brand new.

At some point, I replaced the Subway Rocket with the Mesa Mark V 35w combo custom build Orange. Loved the Mark V but it had just to many options and after a while I was looking for something a bit simpler. I picked up the Dark Terror on sale and it just sat in the closet for a year, till I finally pulled it out to jam one day. That is when I realized I only needed this one amp, very simple and terrific gain, just love the DT gain for sure. I picked up the PPC212V cabinet as a X-Mas present to myself last year and I then wanted a little more clean headroom with a bit more versatility. That is when I decided to go with the TH30 after throwing a few things around, which can switch between 7/15/30 watts, perfect for everything in my opinion and I like that the Clean channel has bass and treble controls. The extra 15 watts with the TH30 compared to the DT is great on the clean channel, plenty of clean headroom and the dirty channel through my PPC212V cabinet can handle everything the TH30 throws at it. It stays together nicely with no mushiness at all to my tone. Nice and tight, love the gain of this amp so much!



 
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ErictheRed

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It's not enough
I know a guy that ordered a Maz 18 from Dr. Z. When he got it, it was so loud, he thought there was something wrong with it. He called Dr. Z directly, and was told “oh, our amps are not normal watts, they are Z watts“. Extremely efficient, they get the absolute most out of every watt.
That's just such crap, no offense. It's also said about every amp manufacturer out there: "But these are 20 Mesa Watts!" has been a common refrain on all of the Mesa threads I've been reading (researching a lot of Mesas lately).

Watts are watts, and tube amps are all very near each other regarding efficiency (as long as you're comparing the same class to each other). It's not rocket science: you bias your tubes properly, size your transformers properly, and impedance match the speakers. Really the only large variable is the efficiency of the speaker.

FWIW, I owned a Maz 18 1x12" for a while, and it was noticeably quieter than my old Traynor YGM-3, even after a tube swap. This idea of "Dr Z Watts" or "Marshall Watts" or "Mesa Watts" or "Suhr Watts" is just total crap.
 

fry

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It's not enough


That's just such crap, no offense. It's also said about every amp manufacturer out there: "But these are 20 Mesa Watts!" has been a common refrain on all of the Mesa threads I've been reading (researching a lot of Mesas lately).

Watts are watts, and tube amps are all very near each other regarding efficiency (as long as you're comparing the same class to each other). It's not rocket science: you bias your tubes properly, size your transformers properly, and impedance match the speakers. Really the only large variable is the efficiency of the speaker.

FWIW, I owned a Maz 18 1x12" for a while, and it was noticeably quieter than my old Traynor YGM-3, even after a tube swap. This idea of "Dr Z Watts" or "Marshall Watts" or "Mesa Watts" or "Suhr Watts" is just total crap.
Didn’t intend to trigger anybody...
 

M@nChild

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i was at a point or understanding that shit dioesnt get real till you hit

 

Gary

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Back in the 70’s I gigged a 45 watt Bandmaster. My fellow guitarists mocked its low power. Today, the Interwebz says my 45 watt blackface Bandmaster is too much power. Sigh.

Good thing I own a 14 watt Tweed Deluxe, 22 watt Deluxe Reverb and an 18 watt Jet City JCA20H I guess. I hope they don’t get made obsolete by 2 watt tube amps.
 

fry

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Back in the 70’s I gigged a 45 watt Bandmaster. My fellow guitarists mocked its low power. Today, the Interwebz says my 45 watt blackface Bandmaster is too much power. Sigh.

Good thing I own a 14 watt Tweed Deluxe, 22 watt Deluxe Reverb and an 18 watt Jet City JCA20H I guess. I hope they don’t get made obsolete by 2 watt tube amps.
Yeah, I remember thinking 50 watts was the minimum reasonable level of power. Anything lower, why bother? The first thing I remember seeing regularly that was lower wattage was the Budda SuperDrive 18. I couldn’t imagine what somebody would do with only 18 watts. I eventually got one, and it was incredibly loud for 18 watts, turned my thinking around.
 




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