2013 vs 2019 top carve

boola1

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My 2019 (68 reissue) has a flatter carve than my 2013 R8, meaning the 2019's bridge sits higher on the posts.

I thought I read somewhere that they're all CNC'd nowadays, is it true that all recent models have a flatter carve than a few years ago or is it still a bit random? :)

Thanks
 

boola1

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The 1968 LP originally has a flatter carve than a 1958 LP.... so it makes perfect sense the reissues are different as well.
Is that a fact? There aren't a lot of good pictures of '68s out there but this one definitely has a very different carve to mine, you can see the thumbwheels and bridge are quite low. Very much like a 58 or 59.


This one has a high bridge

So it seems like '68s are not consistent.

Maybe I can ask the question another way. Are 2019 historics very consistent in their top carves or is there variance?
 
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mudface

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You gotta keep in mind that the carve is not main influence on bridge height,.... it's the angle of the neck set. The neck set can differ quite a bit from one LP to another as each one is hand fitted. This happens across all years and models,... a half of a degree makes a big difference.
 

Brek

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My 2020 is flatter than my 2018 and 2013, but what I could do is this: I work in 3d model creation for a living, I use photogrammetry (creates a 3d model much like the lid at type systems probably used to capture tops for Gibson TH line, but way cheaper as just needs a camera) I use a ruler in the capture and can get scale pretty much identical for any guitars I do in this manner. The bonus is I get a nice 3d model of my guitar, got a few jobs on at the moment, so won't be right away.
 
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ARandall

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Flatter won't make the bridge sit higher.......the abr is practically right at the top of the virgin maple slab however pronounced the curve is.
What does make a difference here is:
actual neck angle
actual maple thickness

small differences to either of these as mentioned are significant.
 

boola1

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Flatter won't make the bridge sit higher.......the abr is practically right at the top of the virgin maple slab however pronounced the curve is.
What does make a difference here is:
actual neck angle
actual maple thickness

small differences to either of these as mentioned are significant.
I'm pretty sure the 2013 has a greater angle and it's due to the carve.
 

ARandall

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Pretty sure.......based on what?
I'm basing my knowledge and advice on having built about 25+ set neck carved top guitars from scratch btw.
 

mudface

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I'm pretty sure the 2013 has a greater angle and it's due to the carve.
You may want to rethink that.... greater neck angle will increase bridge height.... a shallow neck angle will lower the bridge height...

A good example of this is the nearly flat 1952 Les Paul neck angle on a very carved top.... the trapeze style bridge had to have the strings wrapped under the bridge to get the strings low enough to the fretboard. The only way to install a ABR bridge on that is to route a channel in the body or remove half the thickness of the ABR or reset the neck,..... and ‘52s have a nice carve though the neck is set flat.
 
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mudface

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Another thing to keep in mind is the thickness of the maple cap,... as mentioned by ARandall,... the cap is thicker at the bridge than anywhere else on the body. Though the thinnest is at the neck join and the dish carve around the edge of the body..... to adjust for a set neck the area around the route needs to be addressed accordingly (sanded or flatten) to have the bottom surface of the fretboard to be glued to. This will have great effect on the pitch (angle as related to the flat slab mahogany) of the set neck.

Maybe @LtDave32 can explain better than i how critical this process is and how it can affect bridge height.
 
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boola1

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You may want to rethink that.... greater neck angle will increase bridge height.... a shallow neck angle will lower the bridge height...
Exactly. The 2013 has a greater neck angle, so all things being equal should have a higher bridge. But the opposite is the case, due to the difference in carve.
 

boola1

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Pretty sure.......based on what?
I'm basing my knowledge and advice on having built about 25+ set neck carved top guitars from scratch btw.
Err? Based on having both side by side. I just looked again, the 2013 has a much greater neck angle. Or did you build my guitars?
 

Progrocker111

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My 2019 R6 Goldtop had certainly more pronounced top than 2002-2012 reissues i had for example...
 

alexvdl

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ARandall is correct. Only neck angle and maple cap thickness have influence on the bridge height not the carve (shape) . The carve shape can make the bridge seem higher off the body or lower. If you want to know if the bridge is indeed higher or lower, measure the distance from top to underside bridge at the middle of the bridge, not at the thumb wheels. If the bridge on the 68 sits higher from the top, then either the neck angle is greater on the 68 or the top is thinner. If you want to make sure, take out the bridge pickup and measure the thickness of the top at the center line.

A very rounded top can have a small distance to the underside of the bridge at the highest point (center line or middle of the bridge) , whereas the distance at the thumb wheels can be much greater because the carve slopes down there.

See the drawing I attached. On both the distance from top to underside bridge is the same in the middle, but because of the very rounded carve you see much more post length.

Your situation is opposite. The bridge on the 68 sits higher but the carve is flatter. This can only mean that the neck angle is greater or that the maple cap is thinner.

If the neck angle is the same, maybe the carve started out the same as on the 2013, but they sanded the highest point flatter (so making the maple cap thinner) . The bridge is still at the same hight, but the cap lowered, so the bridge seems to sit higher.

I hope this makes sense.
 

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GermHerm

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Mine are all different. Does it matter? No! Is the sound good? yes! :acoustic:
 

twinrider1

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The tenon/neck pocket sets the neck angle. You can think of the neck pivoting at the pocket. The plane of the neck determines the bridge's position in space.

The bridge height doesn't determine the neck angle. It's a result of, not the driver of.

These days I doubt mahogany/maple thickness or even carve varies much. Blanks get thickness planed and carves are cnc. It would be down to manufacturing tolerances and whatever finish sanding is done by hand.
I'd say it's the hand fitting of the neck to the body that causes most of the variance.
 

rogue3

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If its one thing Gibson likes to do,its change-up the top carve in my examples! I can only comment on some i've owned.

My 2010 R8 is quite flat.The 2011 R8 i used to own got a little more belly.

My late 80's lesters are quite pronounced,almost violin-like.But nothing like the '82 standard i once owned.It was very pronounced...and beautiful.A violin copy carve top.

The Norlins i once owned from the 70's were quite flat.

Thats Gibson for you.
 

lpfan1980

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Thread Title How humpy is your Les Paul flat-moderate humpy or humpy-hump!:io::thumb:
 


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