1966 ? Gibson SG Refin to Pelham blue 60477

ipodsandlps

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Hey MLPers,

I just got a vintage Gibson SG in a trade. Its been refinished and modified some, has a hofner archtop tailpiece that is strange, small headstock and the smaller vintage pickguard. Also the nylon saddles were replaced on the bridge of this guitar

The owner I got it from said that its a 1966, but I am not too familiar with Vintage SG dating so any help is appreciated.
I would like any advice you all have on dating this guitar to try and figure out what the year is and value...

Serial number is not visible in pictures but I have the guitar and the serial # reads 60477

Headstock is the original finish (damage to MOP Gibson logo) but the rest of the guitar has been refinished.

What do ya think? Have I been duped? Or is this really a 60s Gibson SG?



Here is an imgur photo album. I will be taking the control cavity off to inspect the pots soon.

66 sg 1.JPG
66 sg 5.jpeg
 

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ipodsandlps

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I also want to get the codes of the pots so that I can pinpoint the year as well.
 

ipodsandlps

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Okay now im just really confused. Im not sure exactly how to date these pots, so if any expert or anything could chime in, I will buy you a virtual beer!!!

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I think that last one is the clearest shot of the pot codes. Please help!!! Thank you guys!!!
 

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NorlinBlackBeauty

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'68 is the year the pot was made and 52 is the last week of 68, so it is likely a 1969 guitar.

Oh, I'm far from an expert anything, but the pot codes are simple enough.

1575500696503.png
 
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ipodsandlps

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Patent # Pickups and Neck tennon joint. It also has a really long pickguard that almost touches the poker chip, as well as a smaller Gibson headstock (not the long and fat ones on SG of this era)


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image3.jpeg
image2.jpeg
 

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ipodsandlps

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How rude of me not to mention: Nice acquisition!

Have fun with it!!
Haha thank you! I appreciate it.

She plays great and sounds incredibly resonant (honestly pretty similar to my 58 Burst replica).

Something is definitely strange about the guitar though. The neck pickup is supposed to be an original pickup (hence the patent sticker) and the neck PU looks to be a chrome cover. The bridge pickup is supposedly not original, which is evident by the two different color pickup covers. The bridge has a nickel cover i think.

Whats also strange is the small headstock on the guitar, coupled with the early SG narrow pickguard. It makes me think its mid 60s rather than late 60s but alas, I don't know too much. Thank you for your help with the Pot codes!

Whatever year it is, its a great playing and sounding guitar and I am pretty stoked on it.
 

NorlinBlackBeauty

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Haha thank you! I appreciate it.

She plays great and sounds incredibly resonant (honestly pretty similar to my 58 Burst replica).

Something is definitely strange about the guitar though. The neck pickup is supposed to be an original pickup (hence the patent sticker) and the neck PU looks to be a chrome cover. The bridge pickup is supposedly not original, which is evident by the two different color pickup covers. The bridge has a nickel cover i think.

Whats also strange is the small headstock on the guitar, coupled with the early SG narrow pickguard. It makes me think its mid 60s rather than late 60s but alas, I don't know too much. Thank you for your help with the Pot codes!

Whatever year it is, its a great playing and sounding guitar and I am pretty stoked on it.
Glad I could help in some small way. There are others here who know that period well @Progrocker111 @HardCore Troubadour and our resident pickup expert @cooljuk

It is possible it is a mix of parts from different years. A refinish may have been done to cover that up. Might be a '66 neck after all.

The grey wire insulation suggests a newer pickup. Cooljuk will know for sure.
 

ipodsandlps

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Also worth mentioning, ive looked over the serial number multiple times and it is 5 digits still. Serial is 60477
 

ipodsandlps

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Glad I could help in some small way. There are others here who know that period well @Progrocker111 @HardCore Troubadour and our resident pickup expert @cooljuk

It is possible it is a mix of parts from different years. A refinish may have been done to cover that up. Might be a '66 neck after all.
Yeah honestly it might just be a husk that someone built using different parts from the years. That wouldn't be too hard to imagine considering the knobs look different, the different tailpiece, pickups etc. Thank you for everything!!
 

CerebralGasket

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Nice SG!

Serial numbers from that era are not reliable for indicating build date of guitar. Pot codes, if original pots are a better indication of the earliest date the guitar was built.

When it got refinished, they plugged the holes from the original batwing (large guard) and converted it to a small guard. 1961-1965 SG have the small guard and 1966 was the transition year the batwing was introduced. The larger control cavity is also an indication of a late 60's SG.

Although the headstock logo inlay is missing, the dot over the "i" is missing as well. This was a feature of 1969 and 1970 models. The edges of the headstock logo appear to be the 1970 block style.

Does it have a volute? If so, cannot be a 60's model. Volutes appeared sometime in 1970. Also if it has the "Made in USA" stamp on back of the headstock, cannot be a 60's model as that feature appeared sometime in 1970 as well.
 
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ipodsandlps

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When it got refinished, they plugged the holes from the original batwing (large guard) and converted it to a small guard. 1961-1965 SG have the small guard and 1966 was the transition year the batwing was introduced. The larger control cavity is also an indication of a late 60's SG.

Although the headstock logo inlay is missing, the dot over the "i" is missing as well. This was a feature of 1969and 1970 models. The edges of the headstock logo appear to be the 1970 block style.

Does it have a volute? If so, cannot be a 60's model. Volutes appeared sometime in 1970. Also if it has the "Made in USA" stamp on back of headstock, then cannot be a 60's model as that feature appeared sometime in 1970 as well.
Good info! Really helpful. No volute on the headstock and no made in usa stamp either, but the font of the numbers impressioned on the headstock is consistent with the vintage 60s SGs ive seen online. I have a feeling it could be an older model converted to look like an older SG, HOWEVER the 5 digit serial number is really puzzling. From what ive read, they started using 6 digit serials in 66 or 67...
 

CerebralGasket

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Also remember the serial number is stamped on the headstock prior to completion of the build. Look at the neck heel joint and compare with others from 1966-1969 online. They are fairly distinct from each year. Transitional year models often get parts and features leftover from previous year.

The fact that the solder on the tone pots look original and the dot is missing over the "i" on the headstock logo indicates that it may be a 1969 model and the fact there is no volute yet.
 

NorlinBlackBeauty

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Also remember the serial number is stamped on the headstock prior to completion of the build. Look at the neck heel joint and compare with others from 1966-1969 online. They are fairly distinct from each year. Transitional year models often get parts and features leftover from previous year.

The fact that the solder on the tone pots look original and the dot is missing over the "i" on the headstock logo indicates that it may be a 1969 model and the fact there is no volute yet.
Did not know you were well versed in SGs. I'll keep that in mind.
 

CerebralGasket

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Did not know you were well versed in SGs. I'll keep that in mind.
They are my favorite guitars.
My first decent guitar was a second hand 1969 SG Special. I have been through about 18 different SG over the years. My all-time favorite to this day are the SG Classic with P-90's. They are a reissue of a late 60's SG Special, but with a Nashville bridge and stop bar tail piece in place of the wraparound bridge and short vibrola.
 

ipodsandlps

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I really wish i could get a photo of this serial bc its nearly impossible to photograph. I think this guitar must have been a wreck and then put back together during the refinish with all sorts of parts.

Here is the heel joint. From what i read though the heel joint varies even within the whole year, but hopefully this will put it in the ball park.

image0.jpeg
image1.jpeg
 

CerebralGasket

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I really wish i could get a photo of this serial bc its nearly impossible to photograph. I think this guitar must have been a wreck and then put back together during the refinish with all sorts of parts.

Here is the heel joint. From what i read though the heel joint varies even within the whole year, but hopefully this will put it in the ball park.

View attachment 424682View attachment 424684
That neck heel joint does have the elongated shape with the semi-circle at top which is typical of a late 60's SG. Like you mentioned, the shape can vary within the same year depending on when changes took place.
 


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