Les Pauls stay in tune

Who says LP's don't stay in tune?

John Vasco said:

Nobody has mentioned the fact that when you put new strings on, you have to stretch each one until there is absolutely no slippage when the string is stretched. You can have the best fuckin' cut nut in the world, but if you do not get ALL of the slack out of each string, they will go out of tune.

Yes, temperature and humidity changes do affect tuning. When I was gigging (from January 1969 to September 2022), I would stretch the shit out of each string at home an hour or so before leaving for the gig, tuning them just below pitch. Then you have the potential changes in temperature with guitar case to boot of car; drive to venue; unload at venue. Once the guitar case was at the venue, I would put the case in a safe place and open the lid so the guitar could acclimatise to the venue. When set up, I would stretch the strings and tune all a few cents below pitch. 5 minutes before the start, I would stretch them again, and tune to pitch, apart from the 3rd & 6th strings which would be a couple of cents below pitch. This is because the giutar is an imperfect instrument. Tuned this way, the root chords with some open strings would have that ever so slight dissonance one associates with a 12-string, but once you move up the neck, everything is bang on.

Here's an excellent article regarding tuning:

Tuning – the Guild of American Luthiers Data Sheet #45 – DrKevGuitar.com

Hope all of the above helps in some way.

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Bit if a side quest but why do some guitars not need to be tuned slightly flat?

I know EVH and a few tuned B slightly flat for reasons you mention. I’ve also needed to do that in the past on some guitars.

My USA 22’ can be bang on in the tuner (poly tune 3) and it results in bang on chords. I’m very very particular about tuning. Some guitars just don’t have the inherent imperfections as bad I think. It’s a plank of wood so I’m not surprised.

Some Gibsons I’ve tried didn’t stay in tune for nothing, some needed B to be constantly flat (proper flat) to hold a 80’s power chord with the add g string or the d,g,b 555 for example.

John Vasco said:

Nobody has mentioned the fact that when you put new strings on, you have to stretch each one until there is absolutely no slippage when the string is stretched. You can have the best fuckin' cut nut in the world, but if you do not get ALL of the slack out of each string, they will go out of tune.

Yes, temperature and humidity changes do affect tuning. When I was gigging (from January 1969 to September 2022), I would stretch the shit out of each string at home an hour or so before leaving for the gig, tuning them just below pitch. Then you have the potential changes in temperature with guitar case to boot of car; drive to venue; unload at venue. Once the guitar case was at the venue, I would put the case in a safe place and open the lid so the guitar could acclimatise to the venue. When set up, I would stretch the strings and tune all a few cents below pitch. 5 minutes before the start, I would stretch them again, and tune to pitch, apart from the 3rd & 6th strings which would be a couple of cents below pitch. This is because the giutar is an imperfect instrument. Tuned this way, the root chords with some open strings would have that ever so slight dissonance one associates with a 12-string, but once you move up the neck, everything is bang on.

Here's an excellent article regarding tuning:

Tuning – the Guild of American Luthiers Data Sheet #45 – DrKevGuitar.com

Hope all of the above helps in some way.

Click to expand...

I think it’s a given that if you know what you’re doing, you’re gonna stretch your new strings. And with that in mind, it’s the nut that’s usually the culprit in tuning issues.

Of course you stretch strings on string changes, but that’s additional stuff, on string changes.
Once it’s done, the other stuff might still matter.
I didn’t mention it, but I keep a pencil with my string change stuff, and use it 9n the nut and bridge saddles when I change strings.

FrostySnowMan said:

Bit if a side quest but why do some guitars not need to be tuned slightly flat?

I know EVH and a few tuned B slightly flat for reasons you mention. I’ve also needed to do that in the past on some guitars.

My USA 22’ can be bang on in the tuner (poly tune 3) and it results in bang on chords. I’m very very particular about tuning. Some guitars just don’t have the inherent imperfections as bad I think. It’s a plank of wood so I’m not surprised.

Some Gibsons I’ve tried didn’t stay in tune for nothing, some needed B to be constantly flat (proper flat) to hold a 80’s power chord with the add g string or the d,g,b 555 for example.

Click to expand...

If they don't the owner is deluding themselves, for the reason I showed in my previous post. That a guitar is an imperfect instrument, i.e. tempered, not pure, with regard to tuning. That's not me talking, that's an expert from the American Guld of Luthiers, as shown in the link I posted.

'...My USA 22’ can be bang on in the tuner (poly tune 3) and it results in bang on chords...' You say that, however the imperfect human ear will sometimes tell you what you want to hear. The technology and science will tell you otherwise...

68 Greenback said:

I think it’s a given that if you know what you’re doing, you’re gonna stretch your new strings. And with that in mind, it’s the nut that’s usually the culprit in tuning issues.

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It is one thing to stretch a string, it is another to stretch ALL of the slack out of each string. So what you say is a 'given' is not quite a 'given'...

moreles said:

Who says LP's don't stay in tune?

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Banjocaster players...

It's reassuring to know that at least one guy knows the Truth for all.

John Vasco said:

Here's an excellent article regarding tuning:

Tuning – the Guild of American Luthiers Data Sheet #45 – DrKevGuitar.com

Hope all of the above helps in some way.

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this article! Temperament is one of those subjects I have yet to really wrap my head around. BUT I tested this tuning procedure, comparing harmonics with fretted notes, and it works really well! I will definitely be doing this from now on.

1) Correctly wrap strings around post
2) Thoroughly stretch strings
3) Tug on strings before every tuning (seating them)
4) Always tune up to pitch

This will keep a healthy Les Paul happily in tune.

John Vasco said:

If they don't the owner is deluding themselves, for the reason I showed in my previous post. That a guitar is an imperfect instrument, i.e. tempered, not pure, with regard to tuning. That's not me talking, that's an expert from the American Guld of Luthiers, as shown in the link I posted.

'...My USA 22’ can be bang on in the tuner (poly tune 3) and it results in bang on chords...' You say that, however the imperfect human ear will sometimes tell you what you want to hear. The technology and science will tell you otherwise...

Click to expand...

Not disagreeing it is an imperfectly temperate instrument 100% fact. But different guitar for sure have different tolerances. I have a good ear for tuning and have been working in studios a very long time. I trust it. I do remember I had a Frankie and that did need to be tuned 3 cents or so on the B. My Les Paul as said not the case. Interesting none the less.

Also wish I never sold that Frankie it sounded so good! Those Wolfie pickups are very good for a hot pickup. I just got bored of the whole EVH look. Now they offer the same but relic instead. Great guitars.

Bobby Mahogany said:

It's reassuring to know that at least one guy knows the Truth for all.

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Thank you Bobby! My respect to you (seriously). You know your shit.

moreles said:

Who says LP's don't stay in tune?

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Lots of folks....whether correct or not....too many variables to point to any one thing....

Most common is the nut whether folks admit it or not. Chapstick is the quickest emergency option.

Most everybody with a Lester with those nut slots have heard the 'ping' at least once or twice.... Chapstick.

Many have been playing and the bastards B or G will go out of tune in a flash. Chapstick.

The Nut design in regards to the gear posts is idiotic. It just is. Were you to angle the nut cuts, it would STILL be idiotic because of still being a break angle. Sooner or later something is gonna bind....just in a different part of the nut... Roller would be cool....but still a break angle...

It Just Is. Doesn't mean you or anybody else is a dumbass for playing one. Nuttin. It just means the design is flawed.....as hard as that is for some folks to admit they own something that is flawed. Pick an actual hill to die on folks.... Not a damn bump in the road.

Another reason Lester have tuning issues is the same reason almost all guitars on this planet ain't in tune. Straight frets. The math does not work out because ΔD & ΔF are not precisely proportional. Impossible with straight frets... True Temperament necks are as close as can be done so far....not cheap. Yes, I know about Buzzie's deal, etc. just fudging things a bit close but still not gonna be dead on because of, once again, straight frets...
Steve likes em..

We've been conditioned in reference to 'in-tune'.... It really ain't...

Then there are those that can't even hear when their guitar is so bad out that even the drummer wants to kill his ass....

Recap: Yes, tuning on a Lester is a flaw....a flaw that 'can' be dealt with satisfactorily pretty easily. Yes, tuning on most any fretted instrument is a flaw. THAT we can't fix without changing the fret architecture.

Sooo, keep beating the dead horse, denying obvious facts, getting huffy and puffy over your instrument being flawed (news flash, they ALL are flawed in some way) yadda yadda.....

Straw argument that shouldn't be even an argument but some Lesterites want to fight when somebody even insinuates anything negative about Lesters.....Just like Stratfords will too over Strats... Silly as shit to me....

Still ain't as bad as a Jazz Bass player vs Precision Bass player in the same room.....and then a Music Man player walks in.... or worse yet, Round Wound vs Flat Wound..... Jeebus....

Zildian vs Paiste......

Humerns is weird.

...and I thought someone would notice the object on the amp...

I never played mine on stage (stage lights can be a bitch for tuning on my acoustics though.)
However its so much more stable than my SG its not even funny.

I utilize extreme bending and due to arthritis it is not comfortable however I endure the discomfort. I use extremely light gauge strings. I have excellent tuners, a proper setup, necks are all good, as is the nut, point being, there are many aspects to when and why even the best guitars do not stay in perfect tune, I have to tune my strings frequently during a set.

When you excessively bend very light gauge strings, they will frequently need to be adjusted especially when new. Even when stretched initially. As stated, there are many reasons not just one that a guitar string needs to be tuned when playing.

TheSoftMachine said:

I never played mine on stage (stage lights can be a bitch for tuning on my acoustics though.)
However its so much more stable than my SG its not even funny.

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Stage lights going LED is one of the best things that happened from tuning viewpoint....

Hella difference having an LED can aimed at you rather than a big ass Berkey Colortran that can burn the hair off of your head...

I remember waaaay back lowering an electric to gel lights and one of my crew was standing right under a Berkey fresnel from hell and his head was beginning to smoke.... It didn't take long....

I didn't have to give the candlepower speech again....