Type of wood used listed on some models on Epiphone site

While looking at Studio model being discontinued I noticed some new arrival models have wood used listed instead of just Mahogany. It seems they are using either Okoume or Sapeli. While still vague in terms of which at least they are being more honest.

Sapele's good stuff. An African "mahogany". I assume Okoume is too.

I highly doubt €pi had ever used 'African Mahogany' on any Solidbofy guitar - other than on the MiJ Elite/Elitist series back in the 2000s......

paruwi said:

I highly doubt €pi had ever used 'African Mahogany' on any Solidbofy guitar - other than on the MiJ Elite/Elitist series back in the 2000s......

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Listed on their website. Not a rumor. This is for the 50s / 60s Standards not the high end stuff.

monwobobbo said:

Listed on their website. Not a rumor. This is for the 50s / 60s Standards not the high end stuff.

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the 50s and 60s Standards are just listed as 'mahogany' like they did for decades,
no word of 'African mahogany' - at least I could not find it
It is an fast growing asian/whatever type of wood, called mahogany, it has not that much to do with the more expensive 'African Mahogany'
that's why they even cover the backside with veneer to look better.

paruwi said:

the 50s and 60s Standards are just listed as 'mahogany' like they did for decades,
no word of 'African mahogany' - at least I could not find it
It is an fast growing asian/whatever type of wood, called mahogany, it has not that much to do with the more expensive 'African Mahogany'
that's why they even cover the backside with veneer to look better.

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Look again at new arrivals. Spec sheets clearly say okoume or sapele. This applies to the new cheaper models as well. They likely haven't bothered to change old listing's.

Certain builders have been playing fast and loose with what counts as "Mahogany" for a while.

There's nothing wrong with Sapele. I have only one 1 guitar with Okoume but I have to say that I actually like it.

Okoume Jazz-caster.

monwobobbo said:

clearly say okoume or sapele

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that's still no 'African Mahogany'

paruwi said:

that's still no 'African Mahogany'

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Umm...then what is? Both woods have been referred to as such. I assume that most know they are not actual mahogany.

monwobobbo said:

Umm...then what is? Both woods have been referred to as such. I assume that most know they are not actual mahogany.

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Historically, many have referred to Korina as "African Mahogany"...

but....

Search for "Korina" results in:

Sapele is a species of mahogany that grows in Africa, but it is not "African Mahogany."
Taylor uses Sapele on some of the lower end models.

And okoume

Lots of wood out there that is mahogany-adjacent…
Nothing wrong with it.
Keeps costs down, helps the supply chain, etc.
I mean if Agathis works, sapele and okume (and others) are better, as they are more durable.

zontar said:

mahogany-adjacent…

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It would be hilarious if they listed them as this!

fry said:

It would be hilarious if they listed them as this!

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Wish "-ish" would become a more widely recognized ad on.

Mahogany-ish

I was reading the information kindly provided by @CB91710, and it says that Spanish Cedar is softer and lighter than true SA mahogany. I have a guitar made from that wood, and I love it. [Both the guitar and the wood it's made from]. I've noticed the stripes in "African mahogany" backs before, and would assume that is Sapele. I had an Epi Elitist SG for a long time, and it was made of what I guess was Sapele. It was also painted with Poly, not nitro. But it was a great guitar, sounded and played the same as any good Gibson SG.

I have to admit, though, that I love the look and feel of true SA hog. It's traditional, and that's very comforting. You know you're getting the original stuff.

Brazilnut said:

I was reading the information kindly provided by @CB91710, and it says that Spanish Cedar is softer and lighter than true SA mahogany. I have a guitar made from that wood, and I love it. [Both the guitar and the wood it's made from]. I've noticed the stripes in "African mahogany" backs before, and would assume that is Sapele. I had an Epi Elitist SG for a long time, and it was made of what I guess was Sapele. It was also painted with Poly, not nitro. But it was a great guitar, sounded and played the same as any good Gibson SG.

I have to admit, though, that I love the look and feel of true SA hog. It's traditional, and that's very comforting. You know you're getting the original stuff.

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AFAIK, unless the customer specifies otherwise, I believe DSG uses only Spanish Cedar body blanks.

CB91710 said:

AFAIK, unless the customer specifies otherwise, I believe DSG uses only Spanish Cedar body blanks.

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"African mahogany" is also known as khaya, so we can add that to the list of names.

On LP-style guitars and the jr's and specials, DSG uses Spanish cedar (which is neither Spanish nor cedar), but is in the mahogany family of woods, very similar grain pattern as Honduran mhogany, and is light and resonant. One simply cannot find Hoduran M. in a one-piece blank of reasonable weight. It just ain't out there. Even the heavy stuff is cost-prohibitive. DSG will use any species the customer desires, but cannot guarantee a light weight or competitve price if one-piece body blanks of other "mahogany species" are desired.

In order for a body blank typically 8-quarters thick (1 3/4" - 1 7/8" thick), 14" x 16" to render a 7-8 lb finished guitar, the blank needs to be around the 8 lb mark, uncut. Typical African, sapele, or Honduran blanks are well over 10 lbs on their own. And even at that porky weight, Honduran 1-piece blanks are very expensive. -when you can find them. Add a maple cap for a carve-top, and you're lookin' at a boat anchor.

Spanish cedar solves all of these issues, gives you that magic 2.3 lbs bd/ft weight, beautiful grain and pecan natural color all at a great lumber price, so it is a no-brainer for us.

Juan Tumani said:

There's nothing wrong with Sapele

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It can be heavy. As well, I have a monster-huge billet of sapele in my shop that I can't use, because it contains so much silica in the wood, it ruined every blade and bit used on it in my shop. I can't even cut it on my table saw. I made just one neck from it, and it ate everything.

LtDave32 said:

It can be heavy. As well, I have a monster-huge billet of sapele in my shop that I can't use, because it contains so much silica in the wood, it ruined every blade and bit used on it in my shop. I can't even cut it on my table saw. I made just one neck from it, and it ate everything.

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I have some here but haven't yet tried to use it. So from a builder's point of view, not so good but from a user's point of view, not so bad I guess.