I'm frustrated and need some help!

Hi all,

I'm feeling frustrated after a local luthier did a setup on my Special Tribute for me and cut the nut too deep. I took it back and they replaced it (with a pain bone nut, when it was Graphtech Tusq) and again, cut it too deep on the wound strings especially—but also installed it so it's slightly off centre in the pocket. When they first did it, I tried to live with it as the thought of taking it back a third time was worse that just enjoying playing. Eight months later, and I'm sick of the buzzing and binding. I can't set up my action how I like it without exascerbating problems. The luthier has now shut up shop and there's no other "qualified" luthier locally, so I'm feeling a bit annoyed.

I have a few questions for you all.

1. Gibson states that the nut width for my guitar is 43.05 mm / 1.694 in. I want to replace it with Tusq XL and am looking for the appropriate part to purchase, which I can then give to a new tech/luthier when I find one. Do Gibson use a standardised size / height of nut, and consistent string spacing across its models? Just trying to figure out what to buy and most sites point to a Gibson spec nut that is almost a mm wider than spec. A trip to purchase some digital callipers might be in order...
   
   
2. From all of my research, when measuring the gap from the top of the first fret to bottom of the string, people recommend 1/64 on treble side and 2/64 on bass side, with a bit of graduation to accomodate radius. I've measured mine and it's 1/64 on bass side and a bit lower on the treble. To make sure I/m not being crazy or overlooking something, would this account for me experiencing buzzing across most of the next no matter what relief and action I dial in? I could obviously get rid of it with a ridiculously high action, but it's currently set at 4/64 trebble and 5.5/64 bass with a Gibson spec relief and that's already quite high, right? Strings are standard 10s.
   
   
3. Worst comes to worst, how hard is it to replace and cut a nut yourself? God forbid, I'm hopeless with tools. But hey, maybe now is a good time to learn if it's not too difficult and I learn something useful?
   

Thanks all, sorry for the long post. I'm just annoyed!

LPSpecial6403 said:

The luthier has now shut up shop

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Good.
Saves all of us from telling you to never go back. You got swindled - consider the money you spent to be tuition.

LPSpecial6403 said:

… and there's no other "qualified" luthier locally

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When you say locally, where are you talking about?
Lots of folks on this forum that might recommend someone near you.

I understand the geographic challenge.
The guitar guy I’ve used since the turn-of-the-century is in Phoenix, and I moved to Texas several years ago.
He still does work for me, only because we make road trips back to Arizona on a regular basis.

My alternative is a couple of guys in Dallas - which is still 300 miles the opposite direction from my house.

I do a lot of minor mods involving screws and pieces and parts, but I’ve never grown the balls to attempt a nut myself. It’s cheap enough to have people I trust do it right.

I don't blame you. You have every right to be annoyed. It sounds to me like they got a pre-slotted nut from Graph Tech and just slapped it in there, never touching it with a file, and the slots were too low to begin with for your application.

I make nuts from scratch out of either bone or 6/6 Nylon. I use the old nut for a template, if what I'm doing is replacing a bad nut. Usually I make one from scratch for the guitars I make.

I've worked with Graph Tech nuts when a customer has insisted that is what they want. Nothing wrong with them, providing the fret board height and 1st fret size permits using one.

It sounds to me as if you need to find another luthier somewhat local, and ask him or her a few questions concerning making a fresh nut completely from scratch. If they are indeed luthiers, this should not be a problem, nor should it cost and arm and a leg.

I make my nuts from 3/16" blanks, sand the radius in the back by hand, slot them by hand through fit and test, fit and test, etc.

FYI, and take this to the luthier:

Nut slots should be properly spaced, and he should have templates or rulers for that.

Nut slots should be depth-slotted anywhere from .013-.018 off the first fret from the bottom of the string. It can be higher, providing it doesn't change the pitch of the string when fretting.

The strings should rest about 2/3 or 1/2 deep in the slot, with a bit of the string exposed on top. They should not rest in there like a hot dog in a canyon.

The "pro luthier" should already know this by heart. Not a "tech", a luthier.

It takes me about 45 minutes to an hour to make a nut from scratch, from 3/16 blank to finished, fitted nut.

ps, a "fix" is not sliding a piece of hardwood or cardboard under the nut to raise the nut slots.

A fix, is making a new nut, slotting it correctly, and not too deeply, and not to shallow.

pps, a valid temporary fix is the old super glue and baking soda slot-filler. It will work, and seem pretty damn nice at the time. But it will also wear down in a few months. Temporary at best.

I do it for a spot-fix at customer's live gigs.

LtDave is the man, he's well worth listening to and learning from!

The most important spec to get exactly right is the string spacing - outside of that, any pre-made, pre-slotted nut such as a Graph Tech should be slightly oversized so it can be sanded down to the exact width for the guitar in question. It must also be taller than needed so it can be sanded down to the correct height. This is easier said than done if you have no prior experience, because it's very easy to mess up the angle (the bottom of the nut must be totally flat and exactly 90-degrees to the face of the nut that touches the fretboard, unless it's a Martin) or sand too much which means the nuts slots will be too low, just like what you have now.

If this is something you're interested in learning or you think you will do with other guitars in the future, then my advice is to start with the pre-slotted Graph Tech of the correct size/spec and give it a go. That's like dipping your toes in the water. If you find that you enjoy the tedious work and getting things just right, then you might want to dive into investing in the tools and materials needed to make your own nuts from scratch - just know that it'll take a few nuts before you really get the hang of it. Or, you might decide it's not for you, in which case you're only out the cost of the Graph Tech nut and the time you spent trying.

Where are you located? Maybe someone on the forum can recommend someone good to take your guitar to.

Pack it up, and send it to California!
@LtDave32 will fix you up.

Leee said:

Pack it up, and send it to California!
@LtDave32 will fix you up.

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Unless he's nearby, that would be a big waste of shipping.

Any competent, real luthier or experienced builder knows this first-tier, basic skill.

And there are plenty of them right here on this forum.

His IP shows New Zealand.

I don't know who we know in NZ.

Maybe some of our NZ followers can chime in..

LtDave32 said:

His IP shows New Zealand.

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Damn …
Yeah, that's some expensive shipping.

Haha, yes. I'm in the south island of New Zealand.

Thanks for all the information above. It helps, even if I'm still to find someone competent enough to do the job. I have done some calling around today and seems there's two options, one very boutique luthier / builder, and another who is perhaps more a tech than a luthier but comes recommended. Not sure if the latter can make a nut from scratch like LtDave or not. Either way, I've sent emails to both to see what they come back with.

I'm annoyed on a number of levels, but not insignificantly at myself for not pushing for better at the time. I'm not a particularly good player, but I love this stuff and really enjoy playing for fun and tinkering with things. It's such great stress relief from the day job. I just want my guitar setup correctly so I can concentrate on playing and not get distracted from constant buzzing and binding.

I've just measured the first fret to string spacing again and it's:
Bass: 0.010" / 0.254mm
Treble: 0.05" / 0.127mm

This is way too low, right? Going by LtDave's specs above, it would see demonstrably so!

Here's the nut as it stands. Note the gap / protruding bits at either side.

LPSpecial6403 said:

The luthier has now shut up shop ...

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I wonder why ...
Hope you find the right one.

How it should look

CB91710 said:

How it should look


View attachment 847485View attachment 847487

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Hard to see exactly in photos, but does look to be markedly different!

LPSpecial6403 said:

Hard to see exactly in photos, but does look to be markedly different!

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Well... for one, it is a nylon nut, not bone or Tusq.

Here's the Tusq nut from my Flying-V
This is factory Gibson... I have not messed with it.

On the idea of you making your own nut:
My mentor told me to make my first nut. Then throw it in the trash.
Make my second nut. Then throw it in the trash.
Make my third nut and see if it worked. Alter as needed if possible. Or throw it in the trash.
I finally installed my fourth one.
This is not to discourage you, just a little heads up for the process you're trying to learn.
The other thing I'd suggest is to buy good slot files. Don't do the welding torch cleaner thing!
And I'm a firm believer in bone over anything else...

fumblefinger said:

On the idea of you making your own nut:
My mentor told me to make my first nut. Then throw it in the trash.
Make my second nut. Then throw it in the trash.
Make my third nut and see if it worked. Alter as needed if possible. Or throw it in the trash.

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Absolutely damn right.

Because that's how it goes, and what's gonna happen.

And you might get going on one.. " Oh I got this, almost perfect, just a little more filing..".

".. shit. Damn it all, one stroke too deep. Why didn't I leave well-enough alone?

LPSpecial6403 said:

Here's the nut as it stands. Note the gap / protruding bits at either side.

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Actually, except for the nut being too long, it looks OK from above, The nut slots do not appear too deep, so the relative height of the nut to the fingerboard must be too low.
The way I test string height at the nut is by fretting the string at the 3rd fret, and and seeing if there is just a tiny bit of string to fret clearance at the first fret. And I mean microscopic clearance.

I hate making nuts. You throw most of them away. Lol!

Brazilnut said:

Actually, except for the nut being too long, it looks OK from above, The nut slots do not appear too deep, so the relative height of the nut to the fingerboard must be too low.
The way I test string height at the nut is by fretting the string at the 3rd fret, and and seeing if there is just a tiny bit of string to fret clearance at the first fret. And I mean microscopic clearance.

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Compared to Gibson’s I’ve just gone to look at for reference today, my strings do seem to sit deeper in the nut AND noticeably closer to the fret. That tells me something, I guess…

When fretting at third I’d say the string just touches the first fret. If it doesn’t, it’s microscopic. When doing this with the ones in the shop today, they had notably more clearance too. Although admittedly they might be too high…