Historics vs. Standards

[rudarb]

rudarb, have you played a '57 Custom yet? If not, it's the first thing you should do before making any decisions. You may find that the guitar is not worth the extra money over a Gibson USA LP, or you may not like the fat neck. You may also find that middle pickup will drive you nuts!!

Based on my experience with Gibson guitars, there's no comparison. I sold all my Gibson USA guitars because, although they were great guitars, they weren't in the same league. Historics truly are the cream of the crop, as far as new Gibsons go.

No, I never have played one, but I plan on it. One of these days I want to get down to Memphis and visit the Gibson showroom. Necks really dont bother me too much, im not too picky, but yet im still fairly new to guitar aspects

 

[Dave1968]

you can pick up a brand new R8 for not much more than than a new Standard.

Solid body Guitar... As close to the original way Standards really were... No Chambering, no Swiss Cheese. Just an all around great guitar.

Then of course you can always go used... You can pick up a used R8 for about $2200.00

IMO - Historics are the way to go.

+1

The attention to detail on my R8 is far better than any standard I have played and LP Customs. It is in a different league all together IMO.

I could've got cheaper R8's over here, I reckon £2000 would be rock bottom brand new. As Pink Floyd said, mine was £2109 and worth every penny and more! I liked the look of the one I bought more than the others.

Good luck!!

 

[shtdaprdtr]

A lot of you guys are comparing used historics against new USA's. I just saw an amazing late 90's mint condition cherry flametop (extremely flamed at that) les paul classic premium plus at my local Guitar center for $1499. You gotta look at the used USA market...some amazing guitars...and just think..some people hold the pre-historics in high regard while they werent constructed any different than the USA models...why are they so good?...because of the label attached to them. Im not biased now as I do own a few historics..but with any guitar its hit or miss and most guitars can be improved upon as I have done to most of mine...even my historics.
Now the main thing is...if you dont know what you want and you have to ask us what is good...then your not ready for a guitar. If youre gonna spend that kinda money on any guitar...you should know what you want to begin with and have a strong desire to own a particular model. Chances are youre not gonna buy anything..youre just testing us to see what other peoples opinions are of other guitars so you could pick a side in a conversation. But if you are serious...dont ask us, go check them out...its your money.

 

[Tim Plains]

some people hold the pre-historics in high regard while they werent constructed any different than the USA models...why are they so good?...because of the label attached to them.

A pre-historic has a solid mahogany body. Any Gibson USA LP after 82/83 does not.

 

[rudarb]

A lot of you guys are comparing used historics against new USA's. I just saw an amazing late 90's mint condition cherry flametop (extremely flamed at that) les paul classic premium plus at my local Guitar center for $1499. You gotta look at the used USA market...some amazing guitars...and just think..some people hold the pre-historics in high regard while they werent constructed any different than the USA models...why are they so good?...because of the label attached to them. Im not biased now as I do own a few historics..but with any guitar its hit or miss and most guitars can be improved upon as I have done to most of mine...even my historics.
Now the main thing is...if you dont know what you want and you have to ask us what is good...then your not ready for a guitar. If youre gonna spend that kinda money on any guitar...you should know what you want to begin with and have a strong desire to own a particular model. Chances are youre not gonna buy anything..youre just testing us to see what other peoples opinions are of other guitars so you could pick a side in a conversation. But if you are serious...dont ask us, go check them out...its your money.

I was asking an opinion, as I previously stated I have seen a lot of people talking about how historics are good and all. Another reason why I asked is because I have played a few standards, and to be truthful I was not impressed, albeit ive never played a historic (ill get around to it), but thats why I posted my question.

 

[shtdaprdtr]

I was asking an opinion, as I previously stated I have seen a lot of people talking about how historics are good and all. Another reason why I asked is because I have played a few standards, and to be truthful I was not impressed, albeit ive never played a historic (ill get around to it), but thats why I posted my question.

exactly..and you mentioned youre buying a guitar, so I just felt that the only factor that should be considered when making a purchase like that is your own personal opinion of the guitars. Im just looking out for you...
you could go buy a historic cause everyone says its cool...and therefore you think its better..when in reality you could be content with a standard or classic for far less money.
Im just saying..dont get all worked up from a lot of the BS on these forums. Theyre great places to discuss guitar history or repair tips and such but when it comes to making decisions....dont get your answers here.

 

[shtdaprdtr]

A pre-historic has a solid mahogany body. Any Gibson USA LP after 82/83 does not.

if my 88 custom isnt a solid guitar...then it must have weighed 30lbs before they relieved it cause that shits a brick.
Theyre all made from one piece mahogany backs (pre 08)...thats all that matters. You have a large hole for the pots, a hole for the pickups and a hole for the selector switch...do you think a few more holes would really matter. Theres only 9 .50 inch holes. Its glued above and below so the vibrations are the same..no loss of rigidity...it really makes no difference..plus a lot of the 80's weight relieving was the widening of the channel for the wires from switch and pickups to pots.

 

[Morphine]

A lot of you guys are comparing used historics against new USA's. I just saw an amazing late 90's mint condition cherry flametop (extremely flamed at that) les paul classic premium plus at my local Guitar center for $1499. You gotta look at the used USA market...some amazing guitars...and just think..some people hold the pre-historics in high regard while they werent constructed any different than the USA models...why are they so good?...because of the label attached to them. Im not biased now as I do own a few historics..but with any guitar its hit or miss and most guitars can be improved upon as I have done to most of mine...even my historics.
Now the main thing is...if you dont know what you want and you have to ask us what is good...then your not ready for a guitar. If youre gonna spend that kinda money on any guitar...you should know what you want to begin with and have a strong desire to own a particular model. Chances are youre not gonna buy anything..youre just testing us to see what other peoples opinions are of other guitars so you could pick a side in a conversation. But if you are serious...dont ask us, go check them out...its your money.

WTF ? Thats the purpose of a forum ... share opinions, ask before buy just to make sure you're doing the right deal, see other points of view, learn more about what your're buying before buy !
If you don't need all these or don't wanna share your info, what the point ? I think the internet is an amazing source of info and thats helps a lot to find a better guitar ! Not every seller know all their guitars and not every buyer HAS to know everything about whats buying !!

I'm a long time collector, but I'm right now looking for more info about a MAX just before pull the trigger ... whats wrong with that ? If I know some forum or some guy that can help me, whats the problem ?

I really don't get it !! Sure the final decision is up to the buyer, but this forum, this thread helps to narrow the choices or show a start point.

Cheers ...

Morphz

 

[shtdaprdtr]

Dont mind me...I was just angry that my opinion was in the minority

 

[Morphine]

I agree with you that theres some "levels" to reach before buying a Historic, so you're newer know whats the difference or if its even worth it !!

 

[shtdaprdtr]

All Im saying is....historics are great guitars...but I think most of their hype comes from the tag and name attached to them. Ive got standards that I have done small mods to and are unbelievable guitars. You have to go to a store and try them all out and try to find the best one for the least cash outlay at this point. I bought my historics not cause I wanted a better guitar...but because I wanted something closer to a 59. Otherwise, my main playing guitars are standards because those particular guitars (not all standards) kick the shit out of everything I tried. Mind you...I go to a GC today and pick up the new Gibsons...they feel like shit right off the bat...I personally dont see the need, but they break in eventually. I prefer buying them used...cheaper and they feel slinkier and smoother and warmer sounding...plus the paint is not sticky anymore. But its all about finding the RIGHT guitar...not a USA or historic...but guitar in general.

 

[Eggy]

I'd say second hand R8 against the standards.

 

[siggy14]

Well I kinda agree with you, there are some kick ass USA production guitars out there, but everyone is quick to jump on the buy a historic guitar. I own both, a 68 reissue and a 1978 custom and a 2006 studio, and they all play great and sound great. The studio of course is slightly different being chambered, but still sounds and plays damn good.

But my favorite guitar right now is my 1978 custom, sounds just as good as my 68, plays just as good and just has this certain mojo that none of the others have.

So I do have to agree with other people when they say, go out and play a bunch before making your choice, find the guitar that speaks to you, whether it be a low line studio or a high end historic, or even a used standard.

Dont mind me...I was just angry that my opinion was in the minority

 

[ptgold]

lifes too short....have fun...buy a historic

 

[VDeuce]

On average, the Custom Shop guitars give up the tone moreso than the production guitars, but not always.

There's a bell curve where perhaps 15% are not great, 70% are very good guitars that most people would be happy to have, and 15% are special in either appearance, playability and/or tone.

I still prefer the Historics/VOS over the production guitars, but the recent Traditionals really are great players and sound great at a lower price point (several hundred dollars).

The 2009 changes on the VOS/Historic guitars are quite welcome. The wireless ABR-1 which doesn't suffer from saddle rattle, the (IMO) better nut material which doesn't cause the strings to bind like Corian does, and the carve are great additions to the line. It also seems that Gibson has improved the neck shape on the '57 and '58 reissues - they seem to have more rounded shoulders.

 

[Duke_18_watt]

On average, the Custom Shop guitars give up the tone moreso than the production guitars, but not always.

There's a bell curve where perhaps 15% are not great, 70% are very good guitars that most people would be happy to have, and 15% are special in either appearance, playability and/or tone.

I still prefer the Historics/VOS over the production guitars, but the recent Traditionals really are great players and sound great at a lower price point (several hundred dollars).

The 2009 changes on the VOS/Historic guitars are quite welcome. The wireless ABR-1 which doesn't suffer from saddle rattle, the (IMO) better nut material which doesn't cause the strings to bind like Corian does, and the carve are great additions to the line. It also seems that Gibson has improved the neck shape on the '57 and '58 reissues - they seem to have more rounded shoulders.

I'd like to know the source of your bell curve statistics. I'm curious.

 

[VDeuce]

I'd like to know the source of your bell curve statistics. I'm curious.

It's been discussed on various forums, but in my personal experience after handling hundreds of them, that's about what I experience!

But if you think about it, the bell curve concept applies to anything where there can be variances from one to the next. Most of a particular model will be fine. Some dogs; some angelic.

 

[Duke_18_watt]

It's been discussed on various forums, but in my personal experience after handling hundreds of them, that's about what I experience!

But if you think about it, the bell curve concept applies to anything where there can be variances from one to the next. Most of a particular model will be fine. Some dogs; some angelic.

Thanks. I experience similar results with used cars. But in all my expeience, I've never bought a guitar that, after awhile, there wasn't at least one thing I'd like to change on it.

For example, the G0 I bought has good tone, but I have to wonder how much better it might be with an RS vintage kit installed. I'm fighting the urge to install one because I'd ideally like to have a "perfect" stock LP.

Sorry for the aside here...just realized I'm off topic a bit.

 

[NXC1978]

I'd like to know the source of your bell curve statistics. I'm curious.

I was thinking the same thing after reading JGV's post, but then I thought to myself... He's probably right!

 

[VDeuce]

Please realize that the "stats" are not exactly science, lol! This is really more to point out that which is said everywhere: there are dogs, ok and great examples of every guitar.

Most are quite decent examples that all but the pickiest would be fine with. Some are not so good, and some are exemplary in one or more areas (looks/play/tone).

I don't judge as much on appearance as I do on playability and tone. I find that when you get into figured tops, so many people go for the looks as top priority. Easy to do when you see pics of nice figured tops on the web - you can't judge a book by its cover!