If you're serious about wanting to play the blues..

[The_Sentry]

I'm in the primordial ooze with you, Sentry, but most aren't.

Like I said, let's talk about the Blues, shall we?

Allright.

I'll talk a bit of blues.

Man...at least to me...it's more than just riffing a scale over a 12 bar progression. A lot more than that. TBH I can listen to John Lee Hooker circa 1954, BB King circa 1971...that shit blows my mind.

Maybe this is the problem I have. You know...at one time....blues was the devil's music, you know? It wasn't this style that was picked over by purists and the torch wasn't carried by the English dudes. It was the "other music" you weren't supposed to listen to. It was the music that churches frowned upon. It was the music you ate to, drank to, fought to, f#cked to. And for some it was the music you died to. It wasn't about singin' no great message of love. It was about LOST love. Bein' down. Hatin' life. Hatin' yourself....committing unspeakable acts of evil against yourself and your fellow man.

There's something about the old stuff...that taps into THAT. When Robert Johnson sings about walking with the Devil...hey, you know something? I believe him!

Now if Gary Moore, or Clapton, or Joe Bonamassa sang that song.....I'd probably roll my eyes and do a "Give me a break here!"

That's the difference, River. I can't quantify it into how they're moving their chords, or their notes, or even what they're singing...it's the entire, overall effect that taps into something dark, something deep, and something that ain't all good.

And at least to my ears...a lot of the newer guys, eager as they may be, good on guitar as they may be...don't get that. Hell, to a large degree I don't get that. I can play some of the stuff...but it's not quite right. I'm kind of on a quest with this music. I want to find that "thing", that mojo that just grabbed someone's gut and pitched it...I'm lookin' for THAT. Not how to execute a doublestop like Clapton. I don't care about that shit.

I wanna take one note, wring it, and make someone's sphincter pucker up. I wanna sustain that sucker for so long that people's brains start melting out of their ears.

I want feeling..and I want to give feeling. And not all good vibes either. If someone wants to feel Evil....hell, I'll give 'em Evil if it's in my abilities.

I'm a long way from "that"...but that's the road I'm on, and it's a road where Clapton, SRV, Moore, Bonamassa are left behind because to me it isn't "in" their music...that stuff ain't.

It's the difference between Cream's version of "Spoonful" and Howlin Wolf's version of "Spoonful".....I'd challenge anyone to listen to both versions and tell me which one is the real deal.

I've got nothing against the English dudes. But I gotta be honest...I'm tired of Eric Clapton and SRV being the be all end all of blues for so many people. Gary Moore's a great player....but there's miles of difference between listening to Gary Moore and someone like Otis Rush. Or, Albert Collins.

There's so many different flavors of blues too. Missippi blues has a connection with Chicago blues, but stylistically...eh, miles apart. There's a special flavor of blues from Texas. Georgia has its own flavor. Even in the Northeast...it's a bit of a different groove. No one song, no one player can encapsulate all of that.

Not even Clapton. Hell....personal opinion on Clapton...he's smooth...velvet smooth...but haven't you ever listened to him and said to yourself "Damn man....just...bend the shit out of that note! Bend that damned string so hard it'll pop off the neck and snap in your face!"

He's not that kind of player. Hendrix was....Clapton isn't.

So..that's my take on blues. I'm about to sign off...a friend of mine burned me some Howlin' Wolf circa 1953. I've also got some Little Walter I gotta dig into as well as some BB King. I promised my bass player I'd give him something "JL Hookerish tomorrow"...not "Thorogoodish"....JLH...I'm gonna fail on one level. But I can't stop trying.

And to me....I can't learn anything from the guys imiting the guys. I need to go to the source....I want that mojo....I can't get it from the modern players.

That's my story with the blues. I am not proficient at it, I'm not a great guitar player....but I have this craving for "that thing"...whatever it was...that marked the blues guys by which rock was founded.

I wanna drink straight from the well, River. Not out of a plastic bottle.

 

[MelonSnapple]

I want a good blues album. Most of the time I can't listen to it more than 1 song.

 

[The_Sentry]

The Sentry got carried out... man how many vids did you post?

Apparently not enough to change people's minds....

 

[Boleskinehouse]

I'll take it all in. I don't give a damn who it is.

 

[River]

Plastic, schmastic. Rory, Kim, et al are the real deal. Nothing wrong with standing on the shoulders of giants and painting a picture of the view. Those guys did it too.

 

[EEF13]

I will totally use it

 

[The_Sentry]

That's called "artistic license"!

Anything that gets us talking about the blues is OK by me.

YouTube - Kim Simmonds Blues Like Midnight

*takes a break*

He sings the song in perfect pitch.

All the notes are correct.

But it's not the same....

Dunno what else to say here, River. We're not gettin' the same things out of this music genre at all.

Peace Out. Maybe one day you'll understand what I'm gettin' at here...but probably not. It's all good though...you'll still a cool dude....

 

[River]

I think I do understand. And I think you've painted the Blues into a corner.

I don't think either of the vids I posted are in perfect pitch nor have all of the notes "correct". Rory's is definitely more raw - Kim's is a promo, so perhaps less genuine. He, after all, is still alive and trying to make a living.

Not all great classical music was composed by fops in white wigs dipping their coke spoons into snuff boxes. Some of it is being composed as we speak. Same goes for the Blues.

 

[The_Sentry]

I think I do understand. And I think you've painted the Blues into a corner.

I don't think either of the vids I posted are in perfect pitch nor have all of the notes "correct". Rory's is definitely more raw - Kim's is a promo, so perhaps less genuine. He, after all, is still alive and trying to make a living.

Not all great classical music was composed by fops in white wigs dipping their coke spoons into snuff boxes. Some of it is being composed as we speak. Same goes for the Blues.

Nope.

We really aren't looking for the same things here.

It's not their styles, man. That's not it.

It's how much of themselves they're putting out there.

As stated....the devil's music.

Laugh all you want.....I think this guy is more "blues" than Kim is.....

Why?

He gives it, man. Like those old guys did. So much out there...you'd think he was possessed by the devil.

Evil....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3wXkv1VW54&feature=channel]YouTube - AC/DC - If You Want Blood (You've Got It)[/ame]

The connection....

Watch those old guys vs. Kim. Now, when they were young...puttin' it out there.....they gave it.

It wasn't understated. It was high energy. It's the difference between making slow, gentle love to a woman and throwing her down on the bed....

Like I said....I'm looking for something different in this. I'm lookin' for the Devil....(and Will...you're gonna hate me for this...but ultimately....rock and roll always comes back to that theme...and it started with those damndable blues.)

 

[River]

Don't pick on my one Kim Simmonds video (his acoustic work is hard to find in the public domain) for goodness' sake - while ignoring my Rory video. That ain't fair, man. And who's laughing? Certainly not me.

Do Roy Buchanan (When a Guitar Sings the Blues) or Peter Frampton (Hallelujah, Humble Pie live at the Fillmore) qualify?

I'll just agree to disagree. For me, it doesn't get any more genuine than this:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33Jaodra7AY]YouTube - Rory Gallagher - Bullfrog Blues[/ame]

 

[The_Sentry]

Don't pick on my one Kim Simmonds video (his acoustic work is hard to find in the public domain) for goodness' sake - while ignoring my Rory video. That ain't fair, man. And who's laughing? Certainly not me.

Do Roy Buchanan (When a Guitar Sings the Blues) or Peter Frampton (Hallelujah, Humble Pie live at the Fillmore) qualify?

I'll just agree to disagree. For me, it doesn't get any more genuine than this:

YouTube - Rory Gallagher - Bullfrog Blues

Well, that's certainly more like it! That dude's got some 'o the devil in him!



So...going back to CB's original post...where exactly does Clapton convey THAT?

 

[River]

Well, that's certainly more like it! That dude's got some 'o the devil in him!



So...going back to CB's original post...where exactly does Clapton convey THAT?

He doesn't. Never has, never will. I find him boring. And my job on this forum is not to defend CB. But CB was, to my mind, just pointing folks to a good place to see how some licks are done. A good salesman always overstates his case.

Regards Kim Simmonds, I'd pretty much guarantee you that live, much less one-on-one, you would be moved. Don't take my word for it, but I am sure that "moved" is what you want to be.

 

[Cookie-boy]

"WOOAAAAAAAAH!"

"At ease Sentry!!!!!!!!!!!"..Let me explain.

The point of the thread is this:

In that one performance, Clapton used just about every blues riff that's ever been played. Ipso Facto. I was not offering it up as a lesson in Blues History verbatim. We can all sit here and post vids of the old greats, that wasn't the point. Where do you think Clapton got his influences from. You want to sit down and talk the blues with him? The guy's a walking talking encyclopedia on the genre. He's forgotten more about the Blues than we'll ever know. And I'm sorry, but he can play.

And another thing.....just because you're black, come out of the Delta and drink a bottle of whiskey a day and you've had a cunt of a life does not make you qualified to play the blues any better than anyone else. Some of those old blues players dumped their shit in the right place at the right time. Lady Luck. And let me tell you she plays her part in 95% of this business.

Who here has listened to the early recordings of "Snake Eyes" Wilson?

Anyone?

Exactly, the cunt don't exist! I just made him up! But I could come on here pontificating about him and within five minutes I'd have a bundle of "Snake Eyes" Wilson fans eating out of my hand!

So take the thread for what it is, baby! I'm standing downwind of a cork forest!!

 

[River]

What about the River Bottom Blues Band, huh?

 

[Cookie-boy]

................and one other thing I forgot. The point of showing that vid to young players (my target audience) was that they didn't have to trawl through 18 seperate videos. At that age the attention span ain't always what it should be. Half the time they don't know if they want a wank or a cheese-burger! It was all laid there, whether you like Clapton or not. And as much as I hate to say it, a lot of young guys are NOT going to be turned on by those same riffs being played plinky plonky by Buddy Guy in 1964!

 

[The_Sentry]

................and one other thing I forgot. The point of showing that vid to young players (my target audience) was that they didn't have to trawl through 18 seperate videos. At that age the attention span ain't always what it should be. Half the time they don't know if they want a wank or a cheese-burger! It was all laid there, whether you like Clapton or not. And as much as I hate to say it, a lot of young guys are NOT going to be turned on by those same riffs being played plinky plonky by Buddy Guy in 1964!

So...you want young players to be introduced to the blues, and you introduce them TO THE MOST BORING PLAYER OUT THERE???



Geez.....

You shoulda just shown them this....

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ou-6A3MKow]YouTube - Howlin' Wolf - How Many More Years[/ame]

 

[River]

Sentry, I think you've gotten old. Maybe even older than I...

 

[The_Sentry]

Sentry, I think you've gotten old. Maybe even older than I...

Maybe I have, River.
Maybe I have.

You know...I gotta do a show tomorrow. The bass player's gonna do a live recording. I have to be "on"....I have to think about that gig from a cerebral level....until it's time to turn on.

Then, the lights go out in my head. The switch is flipped. They aren't going to respond to me cerebrally, River. I already know this.

I can't go up there, sit on a stool, and blow them away with either chops, or my vocals. I'm not that good. I know it. But you know something?

I don't have to be.

I have to be an animal onstage. I have to go up there, sometimes with just one damned chord, and give it off like "Hey...I'm gonna f$*k each and every one of you people in your head. I'm going to swallow you whole."

I already know that's what they respond to. My problem is that I can't let the switch go....completely....yet.

But hell, if I keep plugging away at it.

Hey...did you see Howlin' Wolf's face halfway through that vid? He looked like he wanted to just tear someone's head off. He looked possessed.

I'd have to say out of all of the blues guys out there...he's my favorite. When he sings something....you know what he's talking about. It's not milquetoast at all. It's raw, in your face. It's like you can almost feel him reaching through the speakers and just grabbing you by the throat.

That's what I'm looking for out of this music, River. And back to CB's point...you wanna turn kids on to the blues?

Tell them about THAT. Tell 'em about the Devil.....hell, you gotta know your fair share just based on what you've managed to share, Cookie. I respect your secrets....but don't sell this genre short. Please.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SH22LEtXd0A&feature=fvw]YouTube - HOWLIN WOLF SMOKESTACK LIGHTNIN 45[/ame]

 

[Boleskinehouse]

I don't find anything boring about that Clapton vid. I can appreciate all of these guitar players. Besides, I'm too dumb to argue with you guys.

 

[Cookie-boy]

So...you want young players to be introduced to the blues, and you introduce them TO THE MOST BORING PLAYER OUT THERE???



Geez.....

You shoulda just shown them this....

YouTube - Howlin' Wolf - How Many More Years

No you crazy sod...........It's neither an introduction nor a homage. It is simply an example of riffs that thew will, by association wth Mr Clapton, be able to relate to. That is all.

And, let me say again, a guy who has been responsible for more young people over several decades picking up our beloved instrument than anyone else. Respect where it's due and all that.