Yet Another Standard Faded Top Refinish Thread......

Discussion in 'The Custom Shop' started by jbutler, Aug 27, 2010.

  1. ledlover01

    ledlover01 Senior Member

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    If you look at my build jbutler youll see that when i stained it, it was yellow.Once the clear coat went on it turned more orange.You can easily see it in the pics i posted.Just take that into effect.But anyway she is looking so sweet! Great job man!
     
  2. jbutler

    jbutler Senior Member

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    Thanks dude!

    I do keep going back to your thread for reference and noticed how much it darkened.... (BTW where are those new pics you keep promising!!!)

    You only used clear on yours? No Amber gloss? And it darkened up that much? Mine's got a real nice honey amber look to it right now, maybe I should only shoot clear on it.....
     
  3. Freddy G

    Freddy G V.I.P. Member

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    Looking real nice jbutler!


    Since nobody answered your question, allow me. What you are looking at (what you called miniature flames) are called medullary rays. These rays occur in trees in order to transport "terpenes" from the cambium layer to the centre stem, or heartwood. These terpenes protect the heart of the tree against decay and pathogens. Since the medullary rays radiate from the centre of the tree out, they appear only on a perfectly quartersawn piece of wood. To a luthier, this is gold! Next time you see a very fine acoustic guitar top, take notice of the medullary rays...the whole top if not significant portions of it will display these rays. That's the sign of a dead-nuts quarter cut top.
     
  4. ledlover01

    ledlover01 Senior Member

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    Ya no joke straight out of the can,used Behln instrument lacquer from stew mac and was amazed at the color! Cant go wrong with Jonesys stuff,and skatterbrane pickups are great! Are you going to be seilling the pair of BBs?
     
  5. jbutler

    jbutler Senior Member

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    @ Freddy G: Thanks for the info! So basically you can say it's a good piece of wood, and from one perspective, looking how it does is almost an incidental benefit? Just want to be clear....

    Very impressed with the R9 BTW. Beautiful work! I look forward to seeing the final results...

    @Ledlover: thanks, I'll keep that in mind, though I'm going to be using the StewMac brand aerosols.... I wonder how much of a difference there might be?

    I've had the Skatterbranes in my other LP for about two years and I couldn't be happier.... Neck at 7.5K and bridge at 8.3K...very vintage sounding and push my amps nicely when I'm in a heavier mood..... Sorry, but the BB's are already in my sunburst and they'll be there for at least a while.... I've been buying pups for 20 years and I never sell them off .... but if I ever change my mind you'll have first dibs....

    I just ordered from Jonesy the other day. I've heard too many good things about his stuff not to try them. I considered going with one of the other companies, but I prefer to go with the independent, small business whenever possible. Besides, he seems like a really good guy who's helped a lot of people out here on the forum......
     
  6. jbutler

    jbutler Senior Member

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    OK, new plan of attack:

    After spending way too much time looking through build threads (and not doing homework as I should be) I realized I wasn't going to achieve the Greene look I was going for. What I had probably would have looked real nice, but it was too dark. Why have something other than what I want?

    So here's what I'm thinking, based heavily on Freddy's R9 refinish thread:

    Sand down the honey amber stain and just call it the first coat of a double stain

    Throw on a fairly heavy coat of yellow stain.

    A few clear coats as a sealer

    A few coats vintage amber tint

    More clear, sand buff etc....

    I know I'm not gonna get the pristine results of the pros on the forum or match colors as perfectly, but does this sound like I'll at least be in the same Ballpark as the Greene LP?
     
  7. jbutler

    jbutler Senior Member

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    Nobody? Really? :wtf:
     
  8. ledlover01

    ledlover01 Senior Member

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    Double staining will not make the flames 3d and bouncy,but it is a certain look.All greeny is,is a yellow nitro coat and a heavily ambered clear coat(s). The nitro turned really yellow and amberish causing that color to arise.If you want bouncy flames then strip everything,if you want flames covered but cool looking go for double stain!
     
  9. jbutler

    jbutler Senior Member

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    Thanks, man..... I got the yellow stain on order already!
     
  10. guitarcase

    guitarcase Senior Member

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    Why do people double stain? I thought sanding then re-staining left a darker stain in the harder wood. If I wanted the stripes to look more pronounced, what should I do...I want to have mostly lemondrop but with an amount of striping around the edges.
     
  11. jbutler

    jbutler Senior Member

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    Double staining helps to make the curl pop out more, especially if the first stain is darker than the second.... the alternating grain has different densities so the stain will soak in deeper to the softer parts .... But I'm a newbie amateur at this, so some of the pros out there might have a better explanation....
     
  12. guitarcase

    guitarcase Senior Member

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    One theory I heard is it pops the stripes, another says it fixes the stripe so you don't get that movement in different light . Can anyone help with this ?
     
  13. jbutler

    jbutler Senior Member

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    OK, finally got back this project.

    I wasn't liking how dark it was turning out so I wound up sanding it down completely and starting over from scratch (though I'm guessing the previous stains will still serve as a double stain somewhat.)

    Here's what it was like before sanding:

    [​IMG]

    And here it is after new stain:
    [​IMG]

    And after a few coats of clear:
    [​IMG]

    Can't really see it in the pic, but it's just starting to take on some shine.

    The goal here was to get it somewhere in the ballpark of The Peter Green Les Paul but I have to say the pure yellow looks nicer in person than I expected.... I probably will continue in the PG direction though.... I figure a coat or two more clear then a few coats of amber tinted lacquer and then the final clear coats and then final sanding/buffing should get me there. But then again, I'm a total newbie to this so if any of you more experience people know better please let me know!!
     
  14. jbutler

    jbutler Senior Member

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    Ok, I know this isn't the most watched refin thread but I thought I'd update it for the few who might be keeping up with it.

    Anyway, I finally got around to the final nitro layers and it's ready to sit and cure for a month:

    IMG_1994_1.jpg

    I made a lot of mistakes along the way but luckily, nothing too serious.... loved the process but rushed some steps..... had to do some things over....messed up the binding a bit and definitely sanded the hell out of it! But this was always meant to be a beater and a learning experience.... when I get the funds I'll be trying a Bartlett kit and hopefully I'll make that one close to pristine.
     
  15. stephenwz968

    stephenwz968 Senior Member

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    I think that looks awesome, great job!
     
  16. pinefd

    pinefd V.I.P. Member Premium Member V.I.P. Member

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    I agree! Very nice job! :thumb:


    Frank
     
  17. OldBenKenobi

    OldBenKenobi Senior Member

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    That looks great! Congrats.
     
  18. jbutler

    jbutler Senior Member

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    Thanks guys; I appreciate the compliments. Learned a lot and really enjoyed it. Hope I'll be doing another one before too long.
     
  19. Reverend D

    Reverend D Senior Member

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    Very cool, looking forward to seeing it all buffed out with the parts on it. Nice job! :thumb:

    Regards,

    D.
     
  20. neil_004

    neil_004 Senior Member

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    I'm more than a little late on this response.. But for what it's worth..

    jbutler - The reason the stain penetrates more in the flames is not due to density. It is due to the wood basically switching from face to end grain. When you stain end grain the stain can soak into the fibers much further than the face grain.

    Curl looks like a sine wave when viewed from the side. When you plane it flat you cut through the peaks and valleys. At the locations where the slope of the wave is the greatest you have end grain and where the slope is the least you have face grain. When you sand after the first staining you leave color in the end grain but sand all or most off the face grain.

    If you pop the grain with a dye the movement of the figure is not affected much. If you use a stain it can be.
     

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