Will cured black lacquer bleed into clear?

Discussion in 'Luthier's Corner' started by judson, Feb 11, 2019.

  1. judson

    judson Senior Member

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    i sprayed a guitar with 3 coats of black lacquer and want to spray a final clear coat lacquer over it .

    there is an area of wood that is untreated and not painted black , just a sharp line where the black ends and the untreated wood starts...

    i want to cover the whole thing in clear but was thinking the black may bleed into the untreated area and make the sharp line shitty...?

    3 coats of black last week should be cured enough?..

    does lacquer just level onto a prior coat or does it chemically reactivate it and mix?
     
  2. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    The layers might melt together, but its not like you're liquefying the old paint as such.

    The only time I have ever had an issue similar to what you describe is where I'm trying to level out serious height issues with some very thinned clear and really lay it on thick++. This one where the taping around the pearl inlay had level change from wood to inlay and then clear to inlay. As I was spraying to level these I could just start to see the underlying blue metallic be affected.......but I had sprayed a LOT of level.
    DSC00671.JPG

    (edit- I was spraying with the guitar laying flat like is in the above shot. There is no way that you'd get that amount of clear on if it was vertical)
     
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  3. judson

    judson Senior Member

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    im trying to keep this "faux binding" maple edge from being discolored or the black running into it if i spray them both with clear lacquer at the same time...right now the edge is raw wood

    IMG_20190211_181034380_HDR[1].jpg
     
  4. WhiteEpiLP

    WhiteEpiLP Senior Member

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    You should be fine, as ARandall said it will melt into the color coat to effectively become one layer but it shouldn't physically move the color around.
     
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  5. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    Maybe a couple of light coats first before laying on the heavy stuff.
     
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  6. judson

    judson Senior Member

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    just gonna do one or two light coats and leave it....

    dont want it too pretty as everything on the guitar is 30 years old

    just stripped and sprayed the top...

    will post it when done next week hopefully when complete....
     
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  7. pshupe

    pshupe Senior Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong but it is a pretty common occurrence to have the colour bleed into the binding on a lot of the vintage guitars. I shot colour on my LP JR and clear after scraping the binding. I do not remember how long I let it sit inbetween but the colour bled into the binding. It is fairly noticeable. My Rickenbacker was different. Sprayed colour, scraped binding, and did a clear coat. If I remember correctly I waited longer with the Rickenbacker and there was no bleeding at all. I used the same dyes and same clear. I would like some others to comment on this as well to confirm. I might have gone right to thicker coats on the LP JR as well, so that may have been the catalyst for the bleeding.

    Cheers Peter.
     
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  8. judson

    judson Senior Member

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    just to clarify, there is no binding on this, i left 1/8th inch all around the body after stripping it to create a faux binding look, so i didnt know if i hit the entire guitar with clear if the black would bleed into the raw wood edge...

    i have read what you experienced with real binding absorbing adjacent color and sometimes from the interior of the case itself...like the red fur like interior of some Gibson cases giving a red tint on some bindings..
     
  9. pshupe

    pshupe Senior Member

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    Did you clear / sealer coat first then shoot the colour? I think that is what would have been a recommended workflow IMO. Sealing, which I normally just use clear nitro, is a good idea as it limits the ability of the colour to soak into the wood in an uneven way.

    I would imagine the same problem could occur whether it was plastic or wood? Ideally, if waiting is an option I would opt for that. Let us know how it works out. I will defer to builders / finishers with more experience than I.

    Cheers Peter.
     
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  10. scrumm21

    scrumm21 Silver Supporter

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    You should be fine as others have pointed out..(i sprayed lacquer for 15 years incl nitrocellulose lacquer, occasionally, on vintage autos)....Can't wait to see finished product
     
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  11. ARandall

    ARandall Senior Member

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    The vintage LP's has the colour in the grainfiller IIRC, not in the nitro. I'm not sure what most people do with coating, but I've done quite a few coloured grainfill guitars and not had 1 occurrence of bleed.
     
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  12. pshupe

    pshupe Senior Member

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    Really - the burst colour is in the nitro? Sorry but he is talking about the colour coat bleeding into the faux binding, No? As the OP says it is maple, so why would there be grain filler?

    Regards Peter.
     
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  13. BPW666

    BPW666 Senior Member

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    Not the burst but i the red colourfot the back and neck was mixed into the grain filler i believe. As soon as the filler is dry you would want to spray sealer coat of clear. Maybe not bleeding but i imagine the colour could be easily transferred to places you don't want if it was handled much prior to the sealer coat.
    Ben
     
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  14. judson

    judson Senior Member

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    no i stripped the entire guitar to bare wood, some light sanding then masked off the faux binding edge and sprayed 3 coats of black on the top....that was a week ago

    it is looking pretty good and i am temped to put it all back together and play the hell out of it as patience is not my virtue which is why i screw up alot of stuff

    but for this i think i will do a light coat of clear over the whole body and that edge then wait...

    here is a preview....1990 studio, original gold hardware, wine finish needed to go, ebony fretboard...its a poor man's black beauty custom :)

    IMG_20190212_093941834.jpg
     
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  15. pshupe

    pshupe Senior Member

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    It looks good. Generally it is a good idea to spray a couple coats of sealer / clear coats before colour. I have not done a re-finish so I am usually building from scratch. The sealer covers the bare wood and makes the application of colour more uniform. If you've waited a week you should be fine. A light coat of clear / sealer shouldn't hurt anything and then you can build up your clear coats to get the desired finish. I think the problems I ran into was the colour coats were still a little wet or tacky and the clear melted the colour and stained the binding.

    I would like to hear from others who have much more experience than I though.

    Regards Peter.
     
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  16. WhiteEpiLP

    WhiteEpiLP Senior Member

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    I've seen binding bleed from the mahogany to the binding but not from the burst to the binding. It's very common on reissues since they switched back to aniline dyes for the grain filler color for the bleed to happen along the neck and where your arm makes contact on the body. I'm sure it's possible but I've never heard or seen anyone complain about bleed from the top color, only from the grain filler.
     
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  17. judson

    judson Senior Member

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    this is my 3rd strip and finish guitar....

    i guess i should have sprayed the entire guitar after stripping with a clear coat

    then mask off the faux edge and rest of the guitar,

    then spray the top and i would be done......im learning but im getting there and having fun doin it!:thumb:
     
  18. timdecker

    timdecker Junior Member

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    This looks great. With each project you will keep getting better and better. :)
     
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  19. judson

    judson Senior Member

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    thanks for that....i know my biggest problem is patience, i just want to do something and immediately put it back together and play it......waiting on laquer to gas off is killing me but maybe its a good lesson there..

    sprayed a somewhat heavy coat of clear front and back, no bleed, let it hang in the closet for a few days then i get to put it all back together...i know i am going to like this alot..

    IMG_20190214_185054225[1].jpg
     

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