Why it's so complicated? 2017 Gibson reissues

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by Edgrim, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. Edgrim

    Edgrim Member

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    Hey,

    I am reading and analyzing threads about Gibson reissues from 2017. There is a lot of a mess in it, so I wanted to confirm if everything is correct and I understand it.

    The main differences between 2017 reissues and True Historics are:
    - Double-carved neck
    - Double-carved body
    - Kind of truss rod cover

    If the reissues from 2018 have something more than those from 17?

    Is it normal that some of 2017 reissues were produced in 2016 (info from checklists)? If 2017 reissues produced in 2016, in early 2017 or at the end of 2017 have exactly the same specifications?
    What about neck profiles do they all have this 59 shape?
     
  2. DarthPaul

    DarthPaul Senior Member

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    Hopefully DanD will chime in.
    I consider him to be the most knowledgeable in regards to 2017.
    I have a "repurposed" Collector's Choice 29 that was most likely built in '15.
    It was a limited run of '17 1958 Historic Standards sold through Wildwood (along with CME and a couple others).
    Being a CC, it has a top and neck carve scanned from the original '59 (9-1165).
    The neck measures .88-.99
    The top carve is somewhat deep around the sides but gets shallower towards the bottom.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  3. jenton70

    jenton70 Premium Member

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    I've had a couple. DanD is definitely your go-to guy on these repurposed ones. In my experience, they've been stellar.
     
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  4. Tim Plains

    Tim Plains Senior Member

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    Another "difference" is Gibson aligned the body and neck grain pattern to be more aesthetically pleasing on THs. It was in a video with Edwin. Non-THs were also just called Standards.

    Gibson released 2014 spec Rs at the end of 2013, so not the first time they would have done this.
     
  5. filtersweep

    filtersweep Senior Member

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    Double carved? LOL- as in ‘we carve it twice to perfect it?’ What net benefit is achieved that cannot be realized by ‘carving’ it right the first time?

    I’m tired of all the carves anyway. It isn’t like there was just ONE 59 to use as a reference. Each was different. I’d almost prefer reissues were more random— rather than chasing fake authenticity. I say fake because they will always make changes to sell more guitars. They have no incentive to perfect reissues- yet I doubt perfection is even measureable.
     
  6. mudface

    mudface Non-Deadbeat/Non-Prominent Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    All I know is that 2017 was one weird year for reissues...... during this period it was a free for all with specs and builds. The Custom Shop lost some good people who were an important part with consistency in what was being produced. The guitars were all excellent,... just what you may end up with would be a mix of True Historics and other models and special dealer builds added to the weirdness. It would be hard to give exact specs for that given year across the board.
     
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  7. Lebond

    Lebond Senior Member

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    I've got a 2017 R8 which is an awesome guitar made in late 2016, the check sheet says December 30th 2016.

    I've also got a 2015 TH59. The 2017 R8 has a very similar neck profile, the same plastics and the same size frets as the TH.

    The main differences are the top carve is noticeably deeper on the R8 and the pickup covers don't have the slightly beveled corners that the TH has. My R8 is a gloss model and doesn't have the wet sanded finish that the TH has.

    Sound wise they sound very similar which is very lively both plugged in and unplugged.

    If you're thinking of purchasing a 2017 historic, I'd say do it as they are fantastic guitars.
     
  8. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    "Double Carve" went away with TH.

    Basically the first pass with the CNC is a little rougher and requires more sanding time before paint.

    The 2d pass of double carve removed material to a "closer to finished" state.

    The ''closer to finished" state allows for less final sanding which creates a finished product that is more consistent.

    Simplified, a single CNC pass requires more finish sanding. Finish sanding is the area in which inconsistencies are introduced to the final product.

    OR

    2 CNC passes = more consistent neck shapes and top carves.

    The CS/Edwin Wilson video referenced above is a must see if you're interested in TH.

    '17 is jacked up as far as determining what you're buying unless you really followed the models closely. The 1st part of the year is all left-over/overstock/unsold models from '14-'16 where the serial numbers were changed to '17 numbers.

    Many '17 are repurposed models and can be '14, '15, or '16 spec. Not many of these repurposed early '17s have TH spec plastics and pup covers but some do.

    Regular spec '17s, that came after the repurposed models were sold off, do have TH spec plastics and pup covers. I think the only real difference between made in '17 LP Standards (Henry had a tantrum so these '17 Historics were known as Standards) and '18 Historic LPs were color and finish options and a new truss cover.

    If I was buying now I'd be looking at '13 and up models. There are good ones from every year, and I own a sweet '11, but to me the updates in '13 are game changers.

    So, any '17 model you would run into is definitely worth a look.

    PS Neck shapes are all over the place. Most will fall in the .89 to .91 range at the 1st and are more rounded than earlier big shoulder R7 and R8 necks. Later, made in '17 R9s, started the move to the smaller .86-.88 '59 neck.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  9. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    Only thing I know, is if you have one, chances are it was a good wood year
     
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  10. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    Only when you're selling...
     
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  11. Crotch

    Crotch Support MLP Veterans & Vendors Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    Bingo!
     
  12. Dilver

    Dilver Senior Member

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    Yup. I started this thread for the very reason that there wasn’t even acknowledgement of 2017 Historics from Gibson on their website in 2017... http://www.mylespaul.com/threads/2017-historics-the-year-that-wasn’t.405533/. House of Guitars got a bunch of them with really spectacular tops and I was lucky enough to get one from a forum member.

    But you have to figure, in order to manufacture the instruments in early-ish 2017, they had to be designed/spec’d in 2016. So even if Rick Gembar and Ed Wilson were let go midway through 2017, the 2017 Historics reflect their work.

    My 2017 ‘58 has a COA that reads “Custom Shop Les Paul Standard 1958”, but is still stamped R8 in the control cavity. The neck is definitely a ‘59 carve and I’ve played R8s from previous years with much fatter necks
     
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  13. Edgrim

    Edgrim Member

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    So this leftovers from 14-16 don't have true historic parts, am I right?

    I had one reissue from 17, she were produced in 2016 and had true historic plastics :) so I hope that she had other TH features like Hot Hide Glue on top....?
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2019
  14. mudface

    mudface Non-Deadbeat/Non-Prominent Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    If it's a leftover tagged as a 2017 anything goes,... but one thing for sure they all were produced with Hide glue.
     
  15. Dilver

    Dilver Senior Member

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    Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but it’s my understanding that the “leftover” 2016s and repurposed CC’s were not that common - the majority of 2017s were just 2017s, no?
     
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  16. Maestro Fuzz

    Maestro Fuzz Member

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    Dilver, do you know till which serial number are CS 2017 treated as leftovers?
     
  17. mudface

    mudface Non-Deadbeat/Non-Prominent Double Platinum Supporter Premium Member

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    Official 2017s ......"5X-60 Standards" as most were called that year..... were not available till mid or later that year. Repurposed CCs continued throughout 2017.
    There may have been just as many or more "leftovers" and "repurposed" RIs than "official" 2017s. Repurposed CC models continue beyond 2017.
     
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  18. Dilver

    Dilver Senior Member

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    7EE0B47F-2E8E-41B5-835A-6B22D2E7C193.jpeg F7A7ABEC-001E-45B5-8A34-134E2527D909.jpeg 0FEB2BA4-56B1-4D96-9B07-0A0C01DF10C7.jpeg B5DDACEE-1921-4F60-B1FE-05BB41384345.jpeg 448BDED7-BB01-4B54-8C48-9BA4DDE88B31.jpeg F9C9744A-89E8-4CE5-B1EF-0B6DD4D270B4.jpeg
    Interesting... do these repurposed or leftovers sold in early 2017 still carry a 2017 serial number? And do they have the aged (slightly yellowed) Gibson logo inlay and deeper binding scrape?

    The Music Zoo has an interesting article (not sure if it’s still up) comparing Historics and True Historics, and many of the True Historic features were on the 2017s. And then there’s the thing with the gap between the fretboard and the neck pickup, which I don’t think was continued in 2018 or 2019 (can anyone confirm?).
     
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  19. vibroluxe

    vibroluxe Junior Member

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    Trying to make sense of all that was going on in 2017 because I’m looking at a beauty in a dirty lemon finish in a low serial range of 8 717X. It has the pickup gap, a beautiful darker red back, is a LP Standard on the COA and the gold Custom Shop sticker on the pickguard. That’s about all I can tell from the photos and I’m afraid to go look at it for the damage it might do to my bank account...

    Could this be a rebranded true historic given the limited info I have given? Sorry, the spec for this year seem to be a bit crazy to decipher...
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2019
  20. DarthPaul

    DarthPaul Senior Member

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    My repurposed '17 R8/CC29v has a measurement of .021 (0.53mm) between the pickup ring and fretboard.
    The Gibson logo is amber (yellow).
    I'm not sure how to determine a deeper binding scrape.
    Basically, this guitar is the exact same spec as the CC29, which was a '14 model. One thing that was misleading in Gibson's description of '17 Historics was "all hide glue construction"... that is not the case with the repurposed CC29 - the top is glued on with Titebond.
    I chose this guitar over a '16 TH knowing the difference in the plastics. Overall though, there was no comparison. 20190204_085428.png
     
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