What year did this start?.....

Discussion in 'Historics & Reissues' started by GuitarGuy503, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. GuitarGuy503

    GuitarGuy503 Senior Member

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    What year did the Gibson Custom Shop start including "R" before the serial numbers on the back of the reissue headstocks? I was at GC today checking out a few Reissues (57,59,60) and just noticed this.
     
  2. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    Only '16s have Rs.
     
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  3. GuitarGuy503

    GuitarGuy503 Senior Member

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    Interesting that they only did it for a year. I wonder if it ruined sales for 2016 because of it? I know some people are all about historical accuracy and I could see it possibly being very bothersome for them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2017
  4. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    The 'historically correct X XXXX SERIAL number system was reserved for TH models in '15 and '16. In '17 they went back to the X XXXX or XXXXXX for all '54-'60 'CS STDs'.
     
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  5. RAG7890

    RAG7890 Premium Member

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    Why all the worry about having a historically correct serial number on a guitar that is not historically correct?

    Am I missing something. :dunno:

    Buy from CME & save a $hitload.

    :cheers2:
     
  6. Callaway

    Callaway Senior Member

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    Might have been running concurrent serial numbers with two different LP model lines for 2016 and adding the tag-on "R" was the easiest way to designate the model being dealt with for stocking, or warranty work etc. Guess keeping simple was entirely too much to expect when you could tell what you had in hand at a glance.
     
  7. Sct13

    Sct13 Gold Supporter Premium Member

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    No.....the serial needs to right....or I don't want it!

    X XXXX
     
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  8. Pappy58

    Pappy58 Senior Member

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    I have a 2016 "R8". It's wonderful guitar, purchased at a discounted price, and I don't look at the back of the headstock very often. And when I do, it does not change the tone! :run:
     
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  9. PierM

    PierM Premium Member

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    People likes to pretend they have a real burst.
     
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  10. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

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    Didn't Gibson use the "R" designation/stamp in 2015 ? when the TH line came out ??? That's what I remember ....
     
  11. Sct13

    Sct13 Gold Supporter Premium Member

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    I think the "simple" answer is they ran out of ink on the big pad ....for the inked "R9" "R8" etc....in the control cavity .....but henry is too cheap to get more ink....besides they could skip a step on the line now....and do it all on the headstock....why pay another guy?
     
  12. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    No, at the time (2015) the other model that was not a True Historic was the CS prefix model Standard Historic with the short tenon, the normal long tenon non TH model had the 2014 date code (even though some were made in 2015) and the standard historic serial X4XXX....2016 they introduced the RX XXXX serial on the Standard Historic.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  13. Tim Plains

    Tim Plains Senior Member

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    Rudi, Rudi, Rudi...

    :slap:
     
  14. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    I think what a lot of people miss in all this mess of TH, CS, and RX XXXX is the intent of Gibson marketing and production.

    The CS Historic guitars used the same CS tenon as most other CS guitars that weren't spec'd as special dealer runs. This is not the rocker tenon or the USA tenon but a enlarged style USA tenon with more contact area. The few CS guitars I've played were every bit as good as any of the older Rs I've played. The fit and finish were the same. The only difference was in the tenon and I couldn't hear that difference.

    Production wise the CS tenon allowed Gibson to make all CS guitars on one assembly line. Presumably this lowered production cost. It also allowed Gibson to introduce TH as the premier Historic and the best Historic series to date IMHO.

    Dealers blew a gasket over the CS style tenon and TH pricing. Gibson caved to dealer demands and continued making '14 spec'd and serialized Historics through '15. In '16 we got the 'R'X XXXX serials to denote a lower level guitar as compared to the premier TH line. Then the top CS staff got canned, the TH program was M2M only and we got a conglomerate of TH and Historic spec for the '17 model year.

    I think many miss the fact that Gibson Custom, under Rick and Edwin, were trying real hard to bring the LP of our dreams to life. The Braz models were already in the works while Edwin and Rick were at Gibson. I doubt actual product pricing was in their realm. Doing everything humanly possible to improve our LPs was within their realm and they were moving ahead at that task briskly.

    Bottom line, I feel Gibson marketing did a very poor job of introducing both the CS models and the TH models. Other than the 'fogged' appearance of the hand sanded finish and (over) yellowed binding the TH models didn't look like they were that different from the regular production Historics. I think everyone that's played a TH can testify that they feel much different in hand than the Historics they were supposed to replace.

    The pricing strategy on the CS models was also very flawed as there were many leftover Historics on the dealers walls at the same price as the CS tenon models. The CS tenon models should have had an introductory price below the '14 spec R for a couple of years until the '14s were sold. THs shoud have had an introductory price just above '14 Rs until the '14s were sold. Both of these models needed to get into the hands of players for a year or two before pricing inched up.

    Had this plan worked, and I wish it would have been done correctly, older R models would've increased in value which helps Gibson sell new models as the price difference between old and new narrows. This would've been a win/win for both Gibson and all current owners of older R models.

    As it turns out we the consumer get a dumbed down TH for '17 and I doubt we'll see much more in the way of 'improvements' for those AVHs that still want those last little details addressed. :hmm:
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
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  15. mudface

    mudface Senior Member

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    Yeah....that's what i meant but my fingers cramped before i could start :D,...Good show DanD :cheers:,...I agree there was nothing wrong with the CS tenon 2015 models....
     
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  16. jamman

    jamman Premium Member

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    DanD ,, I think you forgot the most important factor . Sales . were way down because Gibson was calling the CS guitar Reissues ,,, and they were exposed ,online, not being such .....

    $$$ talks (BS walks ,so They were sent packing) and if you don't sell enough units ,, it's a FAIL .... We spoke with out Wallets ...
     
  17. DanD

    DanD Senior Member

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    I blame marketing for the sales fiasco. Pricing was too high for the introduction of two new model lines.

    Add to that the lack of exposure and advertising these new models received and it's understandable why dealers didn't place their orders.

    We didn't really get the chance to speak with our wallets tho. The dealers decided what they would buy to stock their stores.

    Since most of these dealers already had a glut of '14 spec Historics for less $$$$ it's no surprise they didn't want to order this new line that was even more expensive.

    I also think that the CC models were too many. The only 'collector owned' CC runs that did well were those that had monster tops.

    I think Gibson realized this and is sticking to the Signature models now. I'd think there'd be way more interest in a Mick Ralph's vs a Mike Reeder. :rolleyes:
     

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