Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by VastHorizon, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. nfpa

    nfpa Junior Member

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    can a capacitor be put in backwards?
     
  2. nfpa

    nfpa Junior Member

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    can anybody tell what type capacitor this is by looking at the pic?
     

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  3. muz59

    muz59 Junior Member

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    .047mf bumble bee installed in my 2008 standard. It took 25 minutes all up, the board comes out in one piece, no soldering required to take this out. Replaced stock cap to take the brightness off the bridge HB. Quick and easy upgrade, and neat too.
    Can someone tell me how to upload pic??!!
     
  4. Coldacre

    Coldacre Senior Member

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    that's a good question.


    anyone?
     
  5. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    Originally Posted by nfpa View Post
    can a capacitor be put in backwards?


    Some of the older wax caps have a polarity indicated by a black band showing that end to ground (-) or electrolytic caps used in amps with high voltage are marked with + & - signs but most capacitors like the Bees and Vitamin Qs are not directional so they can be soldered in your guitar either way and it doesn't really matter.

    jonesy
     
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  6. dodger916

    dodger916 Senior Member

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    I'm one who has been happy with the PIO caps I installed in a couple of my guitars, and then I read something that gave me pause. The current flowing through the cap is going to ground, i.e., it's no longer in the signal chain. If so, CAN the cap really affect tone? And if so, how?

     
  7. Leo_Gibson

    Leo_Gibson Senior Member

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    Assuming all variables could be controlled 100%, including having a robot play the guitar identically each time, I'm wondering if any of us would actually hear a difference between genuine 50s Bees and some cheapo Russian K40Y-9's in a blind test.

    I, for one, have suffered from the audio placebo effect e.g. been mixing a track, activated an EQ and found that track sounded better, only to realize the EQ was bypassed. :thumb:\

    Thoughts?
     
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  8. Meddled

    Meddled Senior Member

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    Are you high? Are you suggesting the stock capacitors introduce some sort of clipping? Do you understand the role of capacitors in a passive guitar circuit at all? :shock:
     
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  9. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar www.MSSCGuitar.com Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    Different dieletrics, different sound. So no, he's "not high" at all.
     
  10. edguidry

    edguidry Senior Member

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    Two ways.
    First, you're left with what's "left" of the tone after the cap bleeds frequencies to ground.
    Second, the cap is part of the circuit. it loads the pickup.
     
  11. dmarcus30

    dmarcus30 Member

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    OK, I liked the bees in the first mixes and this mix is even more appealing. The "modern" set-up sounds shrill, squashed, and ratty, to my ears.
    The bees sound much more dimensional like "air" around the notes, and the mids and lows are fully present.
    THANK YOU for the taste test and ALSO for actually playing the correct chord voicings for ARN!
     
  12. QReuCk

    QReuCk Senior Member

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    For those who may be interested in it, David Collins' survey tests results (see link on page before if you want to do the test before hearing about the results have been published:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7Hu52vmxE0&feature=youtu.be
    Don't open that link if you intent to do the test blind before.

    I can confidently say I was very confident with test 5, Had absolutely no idea with test 1, was wrong in test 2 (yeah, I have been tricked by a solid conductor in lieu of a cap with tone pot on 10), wrong again on test 3 and right (out of pure luck probably?) on test 4.
    Main critic for me: the playing appeared a bit inconsistant and that could explain some results, but if a blind player's variations have more impact than the cap material, I know where I won't spend my money at least.

    I also recommand the whole guitar electronics video series from same A2Guitars Youtube user.
     
  13. Ed hunter

    Ed hunter Senior Member

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    The bee's clip sounded fuller and ballsier even to my old tone deaf ears:thumb:
    was it the way the two clips were uploaded?:dunno:
     
  14. God-z1973

    God-z1973 Junior Member

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    I liked to sound of the 50's wiring with the bumble bees. I am curious if other capacitors with equal capacitance as the bees would alter the tone at all.
     
  15. bentfinger

    bentfinger Junior Member

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    That is amazing the difference through my system is clear. I love the bees!! They
    have brought warmth to your sound.
     
  16. Lewguitar

    Lewguitar Junior Member

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    I heard the Bees as being fuller. Thicker mids. Warmer treble.
     
  17. ashbass

    ashbass V.I.P. Member

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    If the bees are from the 50s as the OP states, they are probably no longer .022 if they even were in the first place. The warmness that many hear may just be that the bee is a higher value cap now and it is taking more high end/treble out of the signal.

    I put a toggle switch on my tone pot for a ceramic disc .022 and an orange drop .022. Back and forth. I was stunned that the ceramic disc sounded better. Much more defined, pushed my amp to breakup earlier, and just sounded on target. The OD seemed placid and choked in comparison. Then I measured them. The OD was .021 and the ceramic was .017. So I wasn't hearing the difference of a better cap, I was hearing the difference of a different value cap. I didn't have any ceramic discs that measured closer to the OD so my testing stopped there. But in my experience, cap value will make a difference before cap composition. It is likely that these vintage bees sound so warm because they are of a higher value (due to drift over 60+ years) as compared to whatever value the stock caps are, which may be like mine and measure well under their stated value.

    I bought vintage bees in the early 2000s and then black beauties because those were the same as bees. I didn't have a multimeter to test back then but they all went back on ebay after a while. I ended up with orange drop 225s for years after that. Now I've discovered and adopted the LUXE repro bees. If you want bees you should be looking at the LUXE repros. They gots the looks and they gots the guts, and they gots the values that we expect from a vintage bee but mostly no longer get.

    I'd like to see the uf measurements for the caps used in the experiment. Are they in pages 2-5 of this thread already?
     
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  18. ashbass

    ashbass V.I.P. Member

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    Some 59s


    [​IMG]
     
  19. Tommy71

    Tommy71 Member

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