Vintage Bees and 50's Wiring Tone Test/Comparison

Discussion in 'Tonefreaks' started by VastHorizon, Apr 8, 2010.

  1. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    You can use the Bumble Bees capacitors with any type pickup, but the important thing is to get the right cap value. Somewhere from .022-.047 uf might be a good range for P-90's since they are just a big single coil and are often brighter than humbuckers.
     
  2. black sheep

    black sheep Junior Member

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    "Any two capacitors, no matter the construction will function exactly the same. Doesn't matter if it's a ceramic disc or pio...if they are both 22 micro farads they will sound identical.
    You think electrons care?:thumb:"


    That myth has been "BUSTED" :)
     
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  3. The Outlaw

    The Outlaw Senior Member

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    in cheaper epiphones (jr, studio) would just getting the bee's and wiring them 50's style with the stock wire and pots show much improvement like this?

    i dont mind buying a $100 harnes for higher end guitars (agile, epi custom) but it would seem a little crazy to buy a $100 harness for a $200 studio or $89 jr with stock pups just seems like a waste. or am i thinking wrong and the pot and wire upgrade would be so huge that it would be worth it even with stock pups?
     
  4. jonesy

    jonesy GLOBAL WIRING GURU MLP Vendor

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    If you plan on keeping the guitar investing in some CTS550K pots would be worth while. That alone will make a big difference in clarity and help get rid of the mud even more so then just swapping out caps. 50's wiring, some good Tone caps and a Switchcraft switch and jack would also help out a lot. Buy all the parts and wire it up yourself and you will save some cash
    .
     
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  5. milkyway77

    milkyway77 Senior Member

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    I was thinking for decades that blondes have more fun.
    I was wrong, either... :D
     
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  6. artguy47

    artguy47 Member

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    Yep, pretty noticable difference.
     
  7. R8.

    R8. Member

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    I'd like to apologize in advance 'cause I'm probably about to ask some really stupid questions :D

    For a R8, I need short shaft pots, right?

    I was checking out Jonesy's pre-wired LP harnesses, and it says "Comes with the best 10% CTS550K pots that have a smooth custom taper and a .022 Oil filled tone caps.". Are those caps the same as bees?

    Is it worth changing the output jack and toggle switch on a historic lp?

    Thanks!!
     
  8. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar www.MSSCGuitar.com Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    R8's require short shaft pots. No need to change out the switch or jack since both are already Switchcraft and wired with single conductor braid.

    As for caps, I don't want to comment too much on what others sell, but 1950's Bee's come in both Mylar and PIO. Paper in oil is by far more difficult to source, especially if your wanting one that still reads within spec.

    Here's a picture of an original late 1950's Mylar Bee .022/400V 20% Tolerance:

    [​IMG]

    These caps cost more than most prewired harness because they are rare and expensive to source.
     
  9. R8.

    R8. Member

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    Thanks martin6string!

    So, it'd better to buy new pots on one side and try to track down old bees on the other? If so, do you know who might have some?

    Soundwise, the difference between old bees and the ones offered in pre-wired harnesses would be noticeable?

    You mentioned PIOs that read within specs, what specs would that be?


    Thanks again! and sorry for my rookie questions, never been into caps and electronics
     
  10. matt@msscguitar

    matt@msscguitar www.MSSCGuitar.com Premium Member MLP Vendor V.I.P. Member

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    I'm a vendor who sells this stuff, so I can't say any more in this thread. Send me an email to info at martinsixstringcustoms dot com and I can answer all your questions.
     
  11. OBX351

    OBX351 Senior Member

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    I can't believe the difference...the bees sound great! Nicely rounded not as much treb on the second with great mids...I am doing the same thing to my '01 R8 and I can't wait!!
     
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  12. talven

    talven Member

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    I just played both clips for my kids, age 12 and 15. They both said, without hesitation, that the Bees sounded better.

    I agree.
     
  13. dipstef

    dipstef Junior Member

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    I love original bees, I put some old pafs on my favorite les paul, but I wasn't extremely impressed by the sound, after putting a pair of vintage bumble bees it was instant mojo. To me they do add a lot of complexity, and allow you to play quite a bit with tone and volume knobs to get a huge range of sounds.
     
  14. Frogfur

    Frogfur Senior Member

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    Geez..I think i can actually hear the difference between the two myself. Sounds great!

    Thanks for the clips

    Peace
     
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  15. gtr-tek

    gtr-tek Fumble Fingers Premium Member

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    Gotta love the '50s wiring and any good PIO caps. It really opened up my Lesters and clones. The difference is like night and day to me.
     
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  16. buffa d

    buffa d Member

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    Can you wire these "vintage" sets with bees in a modern style as well?
     
  17. stevesmith67

    stevesmith67 Junior Member

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    Very cool. Thanks for this clip. I have a 2010 58 RI with bees and love the sound. I thought your clip was 2 diff guitars and was wondering about diff in pups but now realize you used the same guitar with modded wiring. Yes?

    Thanks:
     
  18. tubemania

    tubemania Junior Member

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    More patents here

    US 2739277 Capacitor eyelet construction

    US 2904733 Molded capacitors

    US 2940025 Electrical capacitor

    US 3156854 Wound capacitor with internal impregnating tube
     
  19. Northwinds

    Northwinds Senior Member

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    Bee's by a wide margin indeed. Glad I have a bunch of NOS Sprague .022 10% 400v's that I stumbled upon. I have heard the Luxe ones are decent also but have no experience with them. Thanks for the clips and this great thread :dude:
     

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