UPS and CITES trouble

Discussion in 'The Backstage' started by TJR, Nov 9, 2017.

  1. max3000

    max3000 Junior Member

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    I just got my Bacchus from Japan which had rosewood in it. No paperwork whatsoever. Got through.
    Am I lucky? Probably. But I believe that if the seller hadn't filed ANY documents, and just declared it as an "electric guitar" it would've gone through.

    Them receiving the paperwork must have triggered something and.. well, rest is history.
     
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  2. TJR

    TJR Junior Member

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    Hi all and thanks for all your replies. A lot of very helpful information here and i'm overwhelmed by the support, and thanks to everyone who has gone out of their way to share information and find links to the right authorities.

    The current situation is that the guitar hasn't yet been seized - despite UPS telling me a week ago that they would be sending it away. It's still "Held in Warehouse" so i can't file for a retroactive permit yet or ask for the guitar back from customs.

    As far is i'm aware it's UPS that has stopped me receiving the package as it cleared customs at Stanstead airport and went straight to there warehouse.

    The seller has told me that instead of this being a unique case it has now happened to 3 other packages that have been shipped recently. Perhaps these other issues have led to mine being held back from seizure for the time being.

    They say they are finding out whether they can send the correct documents electronically or whether the guitars need to return to the US to be sent again.

    I'm not sure how this will avoid the issue of me being asked for paperwork directly, and I know that the safest course of action right now would be to get my money back as soon as possible, so i'm going to give them a week or so before I push the issue of a refund as I still hold hope that maybe some resolution can be found, perhaps if it returns to the US but the seller also sends me the documents with the CITES licence numbers etc, provided they had already applied for an import licence in my name. Or hopefully avoid UPS altogether and use somebody different.

    So against my better judgement i'm holding out hope for a little while longer.

    EDIT: They've just replied again and said that it is in fact with customs and they're working to see if customs will clear it, or if they will send it back to the US.
    If it gets sent back I will ask for a refund, and if it is seized then I will ask for a refund or get a chargeback on the credit card. If it does get cleared, then obviously that is very good! So hopefully an end is in sight.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  3. LesJackes

    LesJackes Junior Member

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    This!!!

    Ask them for a copy of the US Export permit and apply for an Import Permit in the UK.
    Even if you don't have the originals, the number will be enough for them to check with US if the permit is real or not.

    If every time the documentation is lost ended with the destruction of the imported goods, I'm sure they will be carried in a handcuffed briefcase. It a pain in the butt but can be solved.
     
  4. Ph03n1x

    Ph03n1x Senior Member

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    If you are not shipping a traditional Gibson or other commonly known guitar, what would make them open up the package to check the woods? What if you said the fretboard was another wood such as Pau Ferro?
     
  5. LtDave32

    LtDave32 Sua Sponte Super Mod Premium Member

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    *Mod Note*

    Update from Frozen Rat:


    That's a good start on the right track.

    However, the two week ban stands. Let's hope that in the future, Frozen Rat thinks before posting.
     
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  6. goodvibes

    goodvibes Premium Member

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    Wow! I just read this post, kinda late though. I'm sorry you had to go through this. So it was not BRW correct? I guess it is true that it no longer matters what species of rosewood
     
  7. orys

    orys Senior Member

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    I told you UPS are the culprit here!
    Don't worry man!
    I am pretty sure they'll clear it because customs are gonna get the VAT and import duty!
    UPS will have to pay the seller back the shipping expenses because they did not deliver. Not only that, imagine if they have to send it back they'll be making a double loss.
    I think you're going to be ok mate!
    Just have faith!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2017
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  8. Red Rocket

    Red Rocket Member

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    To protect yourself, if you havent already done so I suggest contacting your credit card company and advising them of the situation so they can start a file.
     
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  9. Phil W

    Phil W Senior Member

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    Rude.
    Ignorant.
    Mean.
    Offensive.
    Stupid.
    Class-free.
    Unwelcome.
    Dumb.
    Kicking a man when he's down.
    Foolish.
    Boorish.
    Pathetic.
    Sad!
     
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  10. RichBrew

    RichBrew Senior Member

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    You missed out beer-swilling troglodyte.
     
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  11. Mitchey75

    Mitchey75 Senior Member

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    OMG - I am very sorry to hear this sad story :(
     
  12. scott1970

    scott1970 Senior Member

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    Dang, you could have read it in less time than it took to carry on about not wanting to read it. :lol:

    The OP's example of CITES crap is enough to squash any thought of ever ordering a guitar outside the US. Sorry for your loss. Assuming you paid by credit card you should contact the CC company and verify how long you have to cancel a purchase just to be on the safe side.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2017
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  13. L96A1

    L96A1 Senior Member

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    I do hope you get your money back and don't understand why the guitar will be destroyed, how does that help the rosewood? Bottom line, you can ship it back right?
    Now I get it why guitars in EU and U.K. are so expensive.
     
  14. Assault Bacon

    Assault Bacon Gold Supporter

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    I couldn't read all that. Whatever it said, let me offer my heartfelt condolences for what must have been a traumatized childhood and wish you well in your quest to foist a bit of your grief on everyone else around you.
     
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  15. RayTorvalds

    RayTorvalds Senior Member

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    Oh man, that totally sucks @TJR . I really feel for you, man. F&cking China is producing a sh!tton of rosewood furniture and your guitar is being held because of a
    tiny strip of it and some paperwork which was said to be all you need. Sorry for swearing, but I am pissed off for you.
    I really hope you get the guitar the sent to you asap and end this nightmare. Keeping my fingers crossed.
     
    TJR likes this.
  16. Farquad

    Farquad Double Platinum Supporter

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    Dang that sucks. Does sound like there may be some light at the end of the tunnel (I'm sure hoping so for you).

    I wonder when all the paper used for cities crud will out cost what they are trying to save? (or worse, we'll need a permit to use endangered paper products)
     
  17. ehb

    ehb Chief Discombobulator Premium Member

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    Bakelite is where it's at...

    :squint:
     
  18. LtDave32

    LtDave32 Sua Sponte Super Mod Premium Member

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    *Mod Note*

    That's enough on Frozen Rat. The man's paying his penalty, and that will be the end of it.

    Back to the topic at hand.
     
  19. 21stcsm

    21stcsm Senior Member

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    This is the kind of crap that inspires me to be even more libertarian (and I am now)...

    When the CITES regulations were passed , the 'top men' decision makers never anticipated the massive PITA not to mention restraint of trade this would cause for guitars and other musical instruments

    It was DESIGNED primarily for raw wood importers and to apply to furniture - and of course one piece of Rosewood furniture has geometrically more Rosewood than a single fretboard - moreso if it's a veneer fretboard

    Clearly , Customs etc to a large extent is cool with 'looking the other way' just as street cops in Seattle have done since the city overlords effectively made it illegal to smoke on city sidewalks

    I'm restricting my international orders to maple or Ebony
     
  20. uhai

    uhai Junior Member

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    Just came across this thread. I purchased a les paul from a dealer in Spain I am in the US. They shipped it Mon. On fedex. Fedex contacted me on Wed. Sent me email forms to fill out. The first was an importer ID form with general info with my S S no. The other was the LACY act form. No way I could have that info and told them.so the contacted he seller for that. Guitar was held up twice for short periods. Once in Madrid and again in Memphis TN.I picked it up Sat. Morn.pretty quick I think
     

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